Boilers

[Lee]

In the Railroad section StG has a thread about the boiler on the 353. What about the smaller boilers that are out there now? The Port Huron's boiler is tagged now, correct? I realize that boilers are expensive, especially for an engine that is only used one or two weekends a year. Personally I would love to see them steamed up instead of as a static display.
I have looked at the thread on the 16 Russell over and over. What an inspiration. Look forward to when it goes back together.
How many engines does the show own and how many are getting closer to "that day"?
Jeff:scuba:

[M Kerkvliet]

How many engines does the show own and how many are getting closer to "that day"?
Jeff:scuba:

All of them Jeff!

Thankfully the MSEA has been working tirelessly to keep the rules reasonable so that we can continue to operate. There are some that would prefer everything we have be a static display.

IMHO, The inspectors we have now (Minnesota) do a great job. They are aware of our "mission", and work hard to keep our show a working show, while still being safe.

I guess for now, we have to take extra special care of the boilers we have. The engine I operate has a great crew. We pay close attention to boiler maintenance and take every precaution to preserve it, and to operate it safely.

It is indeed expensive to put a new boiler on an engine. That is something that will need to be addressed by our board of directors some time in the future. Spencer may be on to something as far as how to finance a boiler replacement, but it may be a hard sell. It is nowhere near as "glamorous" or visible as lets say, a round house or some other big ticket item.

One vehicle we do have to finance projects like this, that are inevitably going to come up... is the WMSTR Foundation! When the foundation gets established, (and we are off to a great start...) it has the potential to provide funding for things like this forever! Imagine 100K+ a year in funding for preserving our history, and our show! I encourage all of our members to make a donation to the foundation, and give a gift that will keep on giving!

[pathill]

I think you missed what Jeff was asking Mark. (or you would be good in politics:rof: )

The Port Huron is the only one of the show engines that is so low on pressure (or red tagged) that it is not in running order that I am aware of, that is WMSTR owned. I am not sure of the exact count of engines the WMSTR owens there is a few of them. The Case 50 and 75, the Port Huron, and a few of the miniature engines as well to name a few that I do know. Jim might have the insight of how many of the boilers are getting close to there end or just need a fix to prolong there life for a while longer.

[M Kerkvliet]

(or you would be good in politics:rof: )



:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

I am a board member!

I just meant that all of the engines the organization owns are "wearing out" and will some day need attention. I have no idea how many there are that are in immediate need.

I will ask Jim tomorrow and if I get a straight answer, I will report it here!

[Darren Gunderson]

This discussion reminded me of a question I have had. Is the small Birdsall owned by the show? It was sad not seeing it steamed up this past show and I thought someone said that it fell into that category of the boiler not passing anymore. I always really liked that little engine and wanted to be around it more when it was running. Maybe it is not owned by the association, I just don't know much about it's history.

[gustp]

I think that engine is family owned. I believe there was some discussion they were thinking of getting it fixed in memory of someone. Probabaly some archive over on smokstak. there were five engines pulled from service last year and from what was discussed the number will increase in the not so far future. This subject will not go away, don't want it to look like Rynda's (sorry that's a bit strong but it gets your attention) around the grounds. Be nice if there were a master plan, but the reality is funds--the lack of.

[Darren Gunderson]

Thanks for that reminder about the tread on Smokstak. After I found it I remember reading that, but had just forgotten the details. If anyone else is interested I have put the link to the thread below. It is in a discussion of Rollag Pictures from last year. In case the link I provided does not take you to the exact spot, the Birdall info is on the 4th page of the thread.

I hope something can be done to revive this engine. (Of course we wish that for all the out of service engines, but I really like this one.)

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31816&page=4&highlight=Birdsall

[Spencer M]

IIRC the Minneapolis 45 runs at 70 psi and has a hard time going up the hill for the parade.

[40avery]

The 45 you speak of is not the shows.

[Spencer M]

I know its not the show's, my focus was to highlight the equipment that is in need of some sort of repair, be it the organization's or a privately owned engine.

[ICLIDA]

I would like to respond to a few items that have been brought up in this thread. First off, to the best of my knowledge, none of the boiler were "tagged" from service. These boilers have just reached a point where the remaining thickness of the boiler material has reduced the maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP) to such a low pressure that it is no longer practical to operate the boiler. The Birdsall can still be operated, but is limited to a MAWP of 47 psi.

The Minnesota Steam Engine Association (MSEA) has worked very hard over the years to assure owner/operators that they are not subjected to any unreasonable inspection requirements. We are very fortunate that we have a very good working relationship with our inspection department. If you are interested in steam engines you should be a member of MSEA. The dues are only $5.00 per year and it all goes to a very good cause. MSEA has had a representative at 6 of the last 7 meetings of the National Board Inspection Code (NBIC). NBIC is the national governing body for boiler inspection and repair. The NBIC was in the process of rewriting the requirements for historical boilers and with the input from the representative from MSEA, and others, the requirements from NBIC will be almost exactly what has been done in Minnesota for many years. Please consider joining MSEA as it does give us a strong voice in preserving our steam boilers.

The Birdsall is now owned by my mother and 2 of my step sisters. I hope to someday build a new boiler for this engine and operate in in memory of Virgil and Everett Johnson. Virgil and Everett bought the engine in the mid to late 60's and brought it to Rollag, and it needs to stay at Rollag. It may be a static display for a number of years, but I hope to someday have it back in operation.

The 45 Minneapolis was lowered from 112 psi to 85 psi last year. This was based on the thickness of the firebox. It has no problem making the hill and we even had it on the brake this year. It does not pull any huge numbers at this lower pressure, but it still can put on a rather nice demonstration.

We all need to realize that when the steel is gone, it's gone for good. I like to think of the 4 "R's" of historical boilers. If you have a boiler which has not lost much thickness and you can still operate at the original pressure, rejoice. If you have lost some thickness you may need to reduce your pressure. If the material loss is too great you may need to repair your boiler. And in severe cases you will need to replace your boiler.

The best thing we can do to preserve our boilers is to take proper care of them. I was somewhat dismayed in the fact that I only saw 4 boilers recieving a proper washout at the end of the show. If we don't take care of our boilers they will lose thickness and pressure.


Remember, none of us really own these steam engines, we are just the current caretakers.

Tom Dillon

[Spencer M]

Thanks for clarifying that Tom. I wasn't absolutely sure about the facts when I mentioned the Minneapolis. Thanks for correcting that. With a proper maintenance regimen the lives of all boilers can be extended considerably. I would like to see all of the shows engines eventually have new boilers installed. Not tommorow of course, but someday, ~20-30 years sounds right.

[edin]

What about some of the portable engines that are kept near the Nelson building? There is one (or more?) old Case portable engine, a C. Aultman Double Star traction engine, and an Ames Iron Works portable engine that are usually sitting up there.

Colt

[Darren Gunderson]

Tom, Thanks for the insights into the status of those engines, it helps to hear from those most closely involved. I hope that the plans for the Birdsall are able to come to pass someday. I look forward to seeing it run again. Like I said in my earlier post, for some reason I have had affection for that engine since I first saw it run. Not sure why but it seems to be in good hands.

Thanks too for the reminder about the MSEA, I need to get on that and join.

Darren

[Lee]

Would be kind of neat to reboiler an engine during the show. A working exhibit if you will. Strip it down the first year and put it together the next. Yeah, I know......money.:(

[Darren Gunderson]

I am not sure if anyone is still reading this thread or not but thought I would try this here first and bump it up to the new posts section. A few messages ago Tom Dillon reminded us about joining the Minnesota Steam Engine Association to help support the work they do. I have been going to do this for a while but keep forgeting to take care of it. If I had any information about joining I have lost it, so I am asking if anyone here can point me in the right direction. I did not find an obvious Web presence if there is one.

So where can I get the forms to fill out or information about how to join?

Darren

[M Kerkvliet]

I would call Larson Welding in Fargo during business hours and ask for Markell. She is the Secretary of MSEA and she can give you all the details and send you out the application. If you need the number, let me know and I'll send you a PM.

[Darren Gunderson]

Thanks Mark, That is helpful. I will give them a call.

Darren

[Darren Gunderson]

Well Mark's advise was good. I called, asked for Markell and she got me all the stuff I needed to get myself and my father joined up. Thanks Mark.

Darren