View Full Version : 16HP Russell Restoration - Assembly
cjmlarson
11-11-2007, 05:23 PM
We are now at the point in the restoration that we needed to get the riveting done. Jim at Larson Welding assembled a riveting crew for this past weekend. Jim, Louie & Clayton set everything up on Friday evening so that we were ready to go bright & early Saturday morning.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1345-2.jpg
First thing in the morning, after having a donut and seeing we had enough people, we started heating up the forge.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1348-2.jpg
There was a job for everybody. Wimpy took it upon himself to be the one putting the super-heated rivets in the hole. I should mention, we decided to use the rivet press (squeezer, according to Jim!) instead of bucking the rivets in with an impact. Less noise, easier on the help.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1351-3.jpg
In the picture L-R, Louie was the rivet superheater, Mark was lining up and positioning the press, Wimpy was the rivet installer, Tom was holding the rivet in place after Wimpy inserted it, Vern was at the controls of the press, and Gary was running the hoist to position the boiler correctly.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1352-3.jpg
Louie is superheating the rivet for Wimpy to install.
cjmlarson
11-11-2007, 05:31 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1354-3.jpg
Mark was signalling Gary, who was at the controls of the hoist, whether to rotate the boiler up or down to line up the hole for the press.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1356-3.jpg
Jim's idea to make this work easier, was to put the boiler on 2 I-beams and we would just roll it on the I-beams. This picture shows it sitting on the I-beams with Gary at the hoist controls and Louie superheating rivets.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1357-3.jpg
Here Wimpy is installing a rivet, with Tom ready to hold it in place as Mark was lining up the press, with Vern at the press controls.
cjmlarson
11-11-2007, 05:56 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1359-3.jpg
It was noon and the pizza guy showed up. Things were going well and way quicker than most of us expected. We were having so much fun, and everybody was getting really good at their jobs, so we took a short lunch and got right back after it.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1361-3.jpg
Bob showed up at lunchtime, so for him to earn his lunch :biglaugh: he took Wimpy's spot and was installing the rivets. Here he waits for Louie to superheat the rivet. At this point in time, riveting on the front of the boiler was complete, and we were just about finished with the rear of the boiler. If you look close, you will see just a few holes left to fit with rivets.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1363-2.jpg
After we finished, we loaded the boiler back on the trailer, and here Kenneth (Jim's grandson) is pulling the boiler out of the shop.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1366-2.jpg
We cleaned up Jim's shop, put everything back in place for business on Monday and I left to get the trailer home before dark. When I got home, I unloaded the boiler, set it upright in the shop and thought I'd better take a picture of the finished rivets on the front of the boiler.
What a great job the guys did installing 140 steeple-headed rivets. :thumb:
I will try not to miss anybody that helped on this project, but forgive me if I do. We greatly appreciate everyone's help and want to thank the following: First of all, Jim B (Larson Welding), for supplying the shop and space to do this work. And also, Kenneth (Jim's grandson), Louie, Wimpy, Mark, Mel, Tom, Bob, Gary & Vern. I want to add, a couple of these drove a great distance to help with this. There is just no way to thank these guys enough for all the help and the great job they did. :bannana:
Wow, sure looks great. Keep posting pictures. Really gives an insight to what a boilermaker does. Can't wait for next weeks progress.
Will you have to make many modifications since you are going with a dry bottom?
M Kerkvliet
11-11-2007, 10:10 PM
Great pictures Clayton!
It was a lot of fun Saturday. I have never been in on a riveting job before (at least not one that big), and I like learning new things.
I'll tell you folks... Clayton, Jane, and the whole Larson crew is doing an outstanding job on this restoration. No shortcuts in that operation! This is going to be one first class engine when it is done!
Thanks for asking me for help Clayton. I was happy to be involved!
cjmlarson
11-12-2007, 06:29 AM
Wow, sure looks great. Keep posting pictures. Really gives an insight to what a boilermaker does. Can't wait for next weeks progress.
Will you have to make many modifications since you are going with a dry bottom?
To answer your question Jeff, no modifications will have to be done, just have to build a new ash pan for the bottom of the firebox. Nice thing about this is, we won't have that wet bottom full of mud. That will be one of the last things built.
Mike McKnight
11-12-2007, 05:37 PM
Awesome job, guys! Kudos to you! :D
Mike
20 Reeves Highwheeler
11-12-2007, 08:07 PM
I agree with Mike, those are some awesome photos and how great to have the chronology on record like that. Thanks so much for sharing with the rest of us.
Gary:bannana:
andyg
11-15-2007, 12:33 PM
Great write up. I love following a project like this. Thanks for the story and the pictures. Now you have me looking forward to seeing it run!
cjmlarson
11-25-2007, 06:55 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1397-2.jpg
The time has come that I needed to drill my first holes into the boiler. :praying:
When setting the engine on the boiler, I checked, double-checked & then checked again, and was hoping that I had everything in the correct spot. This picture shows a few of the holes that I have drilled & tapped for the crankshaft pedestal. So far, it has been going good. I have got about 65 holes done. The long holiday weekend really helped, plus the fact that my 2 brothers and Dad were here. We worked on the engine and also the water tender wagon that I'm building.
GaarScott
11-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Clayton,
Thanks for sharing the photos of the progress of this project. They have been most interesting. Thanks.
Curious though...did you use a straight or tapered stud into the boiler? How many threads per inch?
Lawrence
cjmlarson
11-26-2007, 08:26 PM
Clayton,
Thanks for sharing the photos of the progress of this project. They have been most interesting. Thanks.
Curious though...did you use a straight or tapered stud into the boiler? How many threads per inch?
Lawrence
Good question for the viewers that dont know what is supposed to be used on a boiler when tapping new holes!
Everything tapped into the water and steam side of the boiler is tapered and 12 threads per inch.
cjmlarson
12-02-2007, 07:13 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1416-2.jpg
It's been a little slow going since the holiday, due to work and blowing snow. But I have gotten the differential shaft and gearing bracket lined up to the intermediate gear and have the holes drilled and part of them tapped. It's actually starting to look like an engine! :bannana:
40avery
12-02-2007, 07:19 PM
Great updates Clayton. It has to be getting more and more exciting with each assembly installed. :)
M Kerkvliet
12-03-2007, 02:12 AM
It is going to be a shame to get those shiny gears all greasy Clayton!
40avery
12-03-2007, 08:16 PM
The sign of a healthy engine is grease and oil dripping from all the right places. Museum pieces have all shiny paint. Working displays look like they have been working.:thumb:
cjmlarson
12-04-2007, 03:24 PM
The sign of a healthy engine is grease and oil dripping from all the right places. Museum pieces have all shiny paint. Working displays look like they have been working.:thumb:
Rick I will have to enjoy it sitting in the so called museum for now.But come next spring it will be dripping and slobbering :( . But wait...... Maybe I can get a Avery crew to clean it after I get it messy.:hide:
40avery
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
You probably could get some help from them in the cleaning process as long as there was some play time involved prior to it.:thumb:
cjmlarson
12-04-2007, 07:10 PM
You probably could get some help from them in the cleaning process as long as there was some play time involved prior to it.:thumb:
That can happen!
Tim Moen
12-04-2007, 11:16 PM
Clayton, perhaps a dumb question, but what's involved in setting the mesh on the gears? Careful drilling or are there shims to play with? Tim.
cjmlarson
12-05-2007, 05:42 AM
Clayton, perhaps a dumb question, but what's involved in setting the mesh on the gears? Careful drilling or are there shims to play with? Tim.
Beings it is a new boiler and nothing to go by for holes,the very first thing you have to do is square up the boiler to the world.Both verticaly and horizontaly.then I placed whatever piece I was going to mark out on the boiler and strap it on tight with nylon straps.Also making sure it was square and straight to the world.Lots of measureing and leveling and checking, over and over and over.Then when installing a gear to mesh with another,you can go by the old wear pattern or depending on the size of the gear, and /or how worn out the teeth are you want enough clearance 1/4inch or so between the valley of one tooth and tip of the mating tooth. Our gearing is in excellant shape so I have been setting my mesh quite close to allow for future wear.Just dont get the mesh to close ,I have been told by more than one person that if you get them to close that you will hear them all the way to California if you are at Rollag. Also they could break if to close. we started with mounting the crank first due to the way the engine is mounted on this engine.some engines you start with mounting the differential gear first when first setting up your mounting .Then when it is in place there can be some shiming to the pieces to get it exactly where it needs to be.By the way ,there is no dumb questions ,Iam asking questions with different people all the time
cjmlarson
12-16-2007, 06:22 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1433-2.jpg
You'll see here, I have machined 2 pucks, 1 that goes in the crosshead area and the other in the piston bore. Then there is an 1 1/4" hole in the center of those pucks. You'll see the 1 1/4" shaft running all the way thru to the crankdisk. This way I can measure and truly square up the crankshaft 90 degrees to the center line of the piston. Everything turned out real good.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1435-2.jpg
After having the crank pedestals bolted down tight to the boiler, the crankshaft turned nice and free. :bannana: Now I could remove the crankshaft and assemble all of the components on it and reinstall it in it's place. You'll see the governor belt pulley and all the eccentric mechanism for the reverser lever and steam valve accuating rod.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1444-2.jpg
Here I have installed the piston with the new rings and assembled the crosshead and connecting rod to the crankdisk. Then I centered the travel of the piston in the bore. Also installed the governor and the idler pulleys for the governor belt. Things went well this weekend.
Wow, looks great! What are you going to do for an encore? Will the boiler inspector have to look at it when you have all the plumbing done?
Jerry Christiansen
12-16-2007, 08:20 PM
Hi Clayton and Jane,
From the looks of the things, I better be sure to have Prony Brake lube ready.
You are making excellent progress. Seeing the pictures and reading about how you are doing things if very interesting. Keep up the good work and the posts.
Later,
Jerry Christiansen
cjmlarson
12-16-2007, 09:55 PM
Wow, looks great! What are you going to do for an encore? Will the boiler inspector have to look at it when you have all the plumbing done?
Yes, and I have talked with both ND and MN inspectors about a couple of the features this unit will have on it .When doing a project this big (at least it is for me)you need to keep those guys involved so all goes well when you need them to do their job! We never want this hobby to have any more problems than possible.
dachtera
12-23-2007, 01:40 PM
Wow, looking at how this is being put back together, I almost think it's going to be able to be better than new. - Using current ways to make sure everything lines up, the clearances are precise and pistons are true, this should last for decades looking at all the hard work, effort and skill that's been put into this!
cjmlarson
01-01-2008, 09:58 AM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1453-2.jpg
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE. HOPE YOU ARE ALL ENJOYING FOLLOWING THE PROGRESS OF OUR RESTORATION.
Here I have the steering cross-shaft with chains mounted, and then installed the worm gear & steering wheel. Steering wheel had to go on before the rear wheel, due to the fact I had to have room to drill & tap the mounting holes.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1457-2.jpg
In this picture, I am positioning the left rear wheel with axle mount all assembled. This is all big, clumsy and heavy and I'm trying to square the axle mount up on the side of the boiler and at the same time getting the backlash correct between the pinion and bull gear. After getting it in the correct position, then I center punched all the mounting holes and then removed the assembly away from the boiler. I am in the process of drilling and tapping the mounting holes. I will show some progress pictures of the drilling & tapping at a later date.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1463-2.jpg
Here I have the main steam line plumbed in with the main shut-off valve in the correct place. After looking at many old archived pictures & visiting with a couple of steam buffs, I have it plumbed as close to original as possible. I've started some of the plumbing on the left side of the engine, but had to stop with that until I get the left rear wheel mounted.
M Kerkvliet
01-02-2008, 07:41 AM
Great pictures Clayton and Jane!
I am sure happy you were able to retrieve the rear wheels!:biglaugh:
40avery
01-02-2008, 05:42 PM
Great posts Clayton. Almost 4500 views between your two threads. That's a following.:bannana:
GKarels
01-02-2008, 10:04 PM
Clayton,
What a great project! I don’t know you very well but I and anyone that has viewed your thread has developed a great respect for what you have done. Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder. What a great show piece, that will work as good as it looks I am sure.
I know someone mentioned that it will be a somewhat of a shame to get it sooty and greasy. I am sure you have given some thought to taking some quality photos before it gets too dirty. Background/setting etc. I could see it on a calendar, such classic tractor calendar, a national steam calendar of some sort and of course the Rollag calendar that has been talked about on the forum. Magazines? Maybe enjoy it for a while in your family room?? It looks like its house broken. Or unless your house is built like Jim’s, maybe your house would be “broken”. :biglaugh: Maybe a museum of some sort would like to display it until closer to show time? I’m just thinking out loud.
Or maybe just fire it up and have some fun! Anyway, we are looking forward to seeing you drag it across the finish line and seeing on the hill!;)
Thanks
cjmlarson
01-03-2008, 09:19 PM
Great pictures Clayton and Jane!
I am sure happy you were able to retrieve the rear wheels!:biglaugh:
Youre a funny guy Mark!!!
cjmlarson
01-13-2008, 07:42 PM
The process of lining up and mounting the rear axle mounts gets to be quite involved. But I will highlight a few of the steps that it took to get this in the correct position. These mounts were put on and taken off many times in this process to get this correct.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1472.jpg
After squaring up the mount to the side of the boiler and getting backlash correct, I center punched all of the holes. Then I removed the bracket, and had to grind down some of the staybolts that stuck out a little bit too far. I could only grind them down flush with the weld. I had to do this so that I could get the bracket as close to the side of the boiler as possible.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1478.jpg
To check my clearance between the bracket and the boiler, I used round rod so that I could sneak it between some of the staybolts so I could get a good measurement. After doing this, I knew how thick of a spacer I needed between the boiler and the bracket.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1481.jpg
Then off came the bracket again, so I could finish drilling and tapping all of the holes. Here I am using the magnetic drill to drill the holes.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1475.jpg
I can tell you this, after tapping 24 3/4" holes, the next morning I could tell what muscles I haven't used for awhile.
cjmlarson
01-13-2008, 07:55 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1493.jpg
Here you'll see the odd looking spacers that I fabricated to go behind the mounts. Lots of cut-outs to get around staybolts and mounting studs. It was done this way because of the way the backside of the mounts would sit flush up against the boiler. The old boiler would not have needed this spacer, because the staybolts were almost flush with the side of the boiler.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1498.jpg
Here you'll see the right bracket bolted up against the boiler with spacer behind it, and also foot brake lever mounted in place.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1499.jpg
We cut out new hardwood brakeshoes and mounted them on the brakeband. Here it is assembled and hooked up to the foot actuating pedal.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1496.jpg
Here is something everyone should have the opportunity to experience...painting steering chain links. When I painted these last fall, I did not get enough paint on them with the spray gun, so Jane took it upon herself to paint them again by hand. You'll see she is under the supervision of our dog, Huxley. This was an extremely tedious job, glad she did it, not me.
GaarScott
01-14-2008, 08:23 AM
Clayton,
I'm reitterating what everyone else here has already said..."Great Job". And I'm glad to see it is a "family" affair. You have a right to be real proud of the work you and the Mrs.'s have done. It is coming along quite nicely and the rewards for your efforts will be a long lasting engine. Gratto's!
Lawrence J. Swanz
cjmlarson
02-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the compliment Lawrence.
As the assembly process progresses, there are lots of things to be done that don't actually show big progress in the pictures. Some of the following pictures will show some of the tedious, but very important, details that I've been working on.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1506.jpg
On all of the bearing caps, they had used all paper shims to set the clearances. Some of these got to be quite thick, so to try and make the bearing caps sit more solid and not have any flex to them, I fabricated metal shims to take up the majority of the room. Then I used some of the old paper shims to take up the small amount of clearance that was left.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1511.jpg
Here is the crankdisc side of the crankshaft. As I said before, I only used the paper shims if needed to take up the small clearances. Just so happens on this bearing cap, I needed no paper shims on the top half (just luck).
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1512.jpg
This is the flywheel side of the crankshaft and if you look close you'll see where I used some paper shims to get the clearance correct.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1513.jpg
This is the differential shaft and the same process was used to set this up.
cjmlarson
02-02-2008, 09:57 AM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1508.jpg
Here I had to cut out a new gasket for the steam chest cover. I have just finished timing the engine so it was time to get this area covered.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1509.jpg
This picture shows the new gasket in place and I'm getting ready to put the steam chest cover on for the final time. :praying:
cjmlarson
02-02-2008, 10:09 AM
One of the things that was broken and partially missing was the main step for the left side of the engine. Luck would have it, that a gentleman from southern Wisconsin was watching the restoration thread and is restoring a 1901 Russell 20HP Compound (What are the chances of that???). He needed a couple of pieces cast that we had, and I needed a step cast, so we got together and got the pieces sent off to get this process done.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1518.jpg
Here you will see our broken step in the middle of the picture. The step on the right is the one he loaned us, and you'll see the new casting on the left. The only thing I have left is to have the center portion machined out to fit the downleg for the 2 smaller steps. This was a major piece to find to keep this piece original. In my opinion, this shows the validity of what this forum has done for us and that hopefully the 2 Russell Threads are not only interesting but also informative & educational. Thank you WMSTR.
M Kerkvliet
02-02-2008, 10:56 AM
You'll be ready for a fire soon Clayton!
In my opinion, this shows the validity of what this forum has done for us and that hopefully the 2 Russell Threads are not only interesting but also informative & educational. Thank you WMSTR.
This was part of what we had in mind when we built the forum, coming up on a year ago! The main idea we had was to be a forum for folks to share their own stories and photos from the hill... share thoughts and ideas about the reunion, and to provide a resource for members helping members. As time goes on, it is proving to be invaluable for the latter.
FYI... Clayton and Jane's original thread (http://www.wmstrcommunityforum.com/showthread.php?t=176) on the start of the restoration of this engine, remains the most viewed thread on the forum with 3534 views as of this writing. The thread you are currently looking at already has 1762 views! There are a lot of folks watching your progress folks! I wonder how many people will come up to you at show time and tell you they watched the restoration on the forum!
GaarScott
02-05-2008, 07:05 AM
Mark,
I for one will be looking for the engine on the hill. It is one thing to watch it being put together here....it will be a whole nother thing to stand next to her and "really" look her over. This has been a great thread. Thanks Clayton for sharing the story as it unfolds.
Lawrence
cjmlarson
02-24-2008, 06:52 PM
We are done with wrestling for the year, so my weekends are a little bit more open for working in the shop. Below are some pictures of getting the rear platform mounted to the engine. This platform also will have the water tanks setting on it when it is complete. The new lumber for this was cut at the Briden-Roen Sawmill during the 2007 Steam School weekend.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1553.jpg
I had to drill and tap the holes for the yellow mounts that hold the platform in place. This U-shaped piece of metal also mounts further to the front on the axle mounts. This piece was bent out of shape, so I had to have it straightened in a press so it would sit level and straight.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1554.jpg
Here I'm getting started mounting the new lumber in place. When I get everything where it needs to be, I will disassemble it, paint the metal brackets and seal the lumber. Then it will be time to mount the water tanks. If all goes well, I should be able to have a fire in mid-March.
cjmlarson
03-10-2008, 08:50 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1577.jpg
This is where the water tanks sit on the platform. This is the reason I am building a water tender wagon, due to the fact we do not have much water storage on this engine.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1579.jpg
Had to heat up the big nut on the hitch and tighten it down, due to the fact that it was all wore out, loose & sloppy. The threads were all smashed, so I just installed some washers to take up some slack in the spring.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1580.jpg
Beings we went from a wet bottom boiler to a dry bottom, I had to fabricate a hitch mounting bracket, and then I bolted it just below the mud leg of the boiler.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1582.jpg
This shows how it is mounted on the bottom of the boiler.
M Kerkvliet
03-11-2008, 01:15 AM
You have got to be just about ready for steam?
cjmlarson
03-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Our new grates should be here this weekend! Also the boiler inspection will be the end of next week.So it is getting real close Mark!!!
cjmlarson
03-16-2008, 07:28 PM
When we purchased the engine, one of the things it was missing was the grates. But when we had a new boiler constructed, we went with a dry bottom boiler instead of a wet bottom. In doing this, I just took my firebox dimensions and had Kory Anderson cast me grates to fit our dimensions. The following pictures will show fabricating grate hangers.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1624-2.jpg
Here I'm starting to cut out where the rocking hanger for the grate will go. You'll see my tooling is not quite as impressive as what Doc Knutson was using! But then again, he's been at this a lot longer than I have.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1626-2.jpg
I cut both sides the same and then all I did was saw the small ears off of each hole, so the grate could sit down in it's hanger.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1628-2.jpg
I set the hangers up on blocks on the floor so that I could assemble this and make sure that everything worked before I mounted the grate hangers inside the firebox.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1630-2.jpg
Just another picture showing when I had them rocked back all the way. Just making sure that everything was going to work and that all my dimensions were correct. Now it's time to crawl inside the firebox and start assembling it.
M Kerkvliet
03-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Looking great Clayton! Are you going to rock them all? we only rock 3 in the middle of Jim's engine... enough to rake the ashes out. The others, while capable of rocking, are bolted solid now.
It looks like your going to make it by the 5th! I will be sniffing the air for coal smoke when the wind is out of the SE the next few days!
cjmlarson
03-17-2008, 06:46 AM
Mark,
You are correct,that way we can push the fire to the front or back and still get rid of the dead ashes that wont fall through the greats.but yet maintaning a fire to get the new fuel to start to burn! We will be burning wood instead of coal unless there is a problem with getting enough BTUs.But the way it is looking that should not be a problem.I have my fingers crossed for the weather this weekend ,Iam hopefully going to be boiling water.:)
Jeff Knutson
03-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Clayton
Very nice job on the grates. I think your depth of recess is right on the grate hangers. Too shallow a hole allows the grates to ride up and out of the hole.
Happy firing
Knut
Pete Mandt
03-17-2008, 06:15 PM
Clayton,
Incredibly nice job!! I wish you luck with the weather and happy firing this weekend.
Pete
cjmlarson
03-22-2008, 07:24 PM
I had my appointment lined up with the Minnesota Boiler Inspector. So that morning, got up early and got the propane torch going to warm up the boiler so we could do a hydro test. The temperature parameters for this are approximately 65 degrees to 120 degrees. Meaning, you need to have the boiler between these temperatures before you can do the hydro test. The boiler had a hydro test done where it was constructed, which was 1 1/2 times the designed pressure, which is 175 lbs on this boiler. So that means that the boiler had to be taken up to 263 lbs. So I had the boiler full of water to the very top fitting and then we used a pressure washer to bring the pressure up to what the inspector called for. Beings the boiler was already hydro tested, this inspection was to check all of the drilled and tapped holes, plumbing, etc... and to make sure everything was to code per MN Inspection. I had some apprehension about this process, due to never having this done before. But let me tell you, working with Mr. Johnson was a very pleasant experience, as well as educational and informative.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1645-2.jpg
Here's a picture of the torch early in the morning, heating up the water in the boiler. Inspection went well, had a minor drip on 2 fittings, otherwise I was ok'd to steam it up. :bannana:
cjmlarson
03-22-2008, 07:34 PM
This weekend, I was watching the weather and was having trouble figuring out a good time to push the engine outside. My brother Craig, from Omaha, showed up on Saturday morning. And at noon, the temperature read 38 degrees and there were very few snowflakes. So we went for it (steam up that is)!!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1647-2.jpg
Here you can actually see the snowflakes coming down, but Craig was busy building a fire.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1654-2.jpg
As we were waiting for steam, we were oiling, greasing and doing all of our final checks, so we would be ready for the first turning of the engine.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1656-2.jpg
Here you'll see the steam gauge has just started to come up. Since a new boiler is clean and without rust, we had steam in a very short time.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1658-2.jpg
Jane was the head engineer for the afternoon, and she kept Craig & I on our toes!
cjmlarson
03-22-2008, 07:43 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1661-2.jpg
Here we are letting it cool down, we had finished our run time of the engine and also Mother Nature had switched the wind to the NW and it was starting to get cold. Our playtime had come to an end for today. :(
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1669-2.jpg
If anyone wants to help raise my roof, get ahold of me! We had enough steam to back the engine partially into the shop. Then we went and pulled the fire & cleaned the ash pan out. Then off came the stack and the governor so we could push it the rest of the way into the shop. It will not take much to heat my shop for this evening, due to the boiler being about 285 degrees. It took about 20 minutes and the shop was about 90+ degrees inside, so had to open all of the windows. Found just a few small details that I need to address and then it should be ready for Steam Up on April 5.
ICLIDA
03-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Clayton,
We are very fortunate to have Mr. Johnson as our inspector. He has a lot of experience with these old boilers, as well as new boilers, and he is very fair and resonable with his inspections. Having a brand new boiler does make his job much easier as he doesn't have to deal with any corrosion issues.
I have been watching your engine as it has progessed on this site, and it looks like you have done a great job. I can't wait to see it in 2 weeks. I hope all went well today and I am sure that there were huge smiles all around.
Tom
Wow. Congratulations. She is a beauty of an engine. Can't wait to see it up close. It has been great watching the engine come apart and then go back togethor.
Darren Gunderson
03-22-2008, 09:39 PM
Wow, I can imagine that has to be one of the most exciting days in the whole process. I am glad it looks like all is going well. I look forward to seeing it run in person. It looks great. It is so good seeing more of these engines getting the care they need to keep going for another 100 years. I really admire all those taking on projects like this and doing it right.
Darren
M Kerkvliet
03-23-2008, 12:31 AM
You guys must be elated Clayton! I didn't think you were going to do it as the weather really stunk! I ended up working on Katy's van all day.
Congratulations all the way around on a job well done!
cjmlarson
03-23-2008, 07:02 AM
Thanks Guys
If I would of started right away in the morning we would of had more run time but,It was 38 in the morning and by the time we finished it was already29.The weather really started to change fast and it got cold.But we were able to get enough run time on to find all the little issues that need to be taken care of.I will tell you guys .....the smell of an engine fired was a good sign of warmer weather ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jerry Christiansen
03-23-2008, 07:04 AM
Congratulations to the Russell Crew! Job well done. I am looking forward to seeing the engine at Steam Up.
Later,
Jerry Christiansen
Mike McKnight
03-23-2008, 08:45 AM
Congrats on the first firing guys! No feeling like it, is it? Helps make all the hours of work and dollars spent worthwhile! :)
Thanks for all the photos showing the restoration....gives the rest of us inspiration.
Mike
40avery
03-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Congratulations Clayton and Jane!:bannana: It is a beautiful engine and will be a great addition to Steamer Hill. Thanks for the great threads on the restoration.
See you at steam up!
Rick
louie
03-23-2008, 11:38 PM
I had the pleasure of being at Clayton and Janes on saturday afternoon when they steamed their engine. It is one good looking machine Congrats on a job well done:congrats:
GaarScott
03-24-2008, 09:03 AM
Clayton,
It's too bad the weather didn't cooperate a little more for your first firing. But it sounds like you made the best of it anyway. Congradulations on a nice restoration job. It has been enjoyable reading your progress here. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
Lawrence
cjmlarson
03-28-2008, 05:11 PM
As I previously mentioned in Post #37, that was the step that we had cast due to ours being broken. I elected to have it cast, then machine out the center portion for the downleg for the smaller steps. The other option would have been to have Kory make a pattern with a core box, then he could have cast it exactly like the one we borrowed. But this would have taken a little more time, so I opted for my first choice. Larson Welding got it machined for me, so it was time to get it mounted, build the downleg and mount the smaller steps.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1682-2.jpg
Here I have the big step mounted and am working on mounting the downleg in the big step.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1683-2.jpg
With the downleg mounted where it needs to be, now I'm leveling the smaller steps and marking where I need to drill the holes. When finished mounting all of this, I will remove it, sandblast and paint. When I'm done with all of this, I will finally be able to get rid of the stepladder and use the steps. :bannana:
cjmlarson
03-30-2008, 12:45 PM
I have a pile of unsplit wood in my backyard that I anticipated on using for the engine this summer, but now realized we need wood for the Spring Steam Up at Larson Welding. Like usual, you think you have plenty of time for everything, and time just sneaks away. I needed a log splitter to take care of this, and it just so happened that Mark K was kind enough to loan me his to get this job done.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1689-2.jpg
As you'll see, I'm messed up on the hours in my day. I should be splitting wood in the afternoon and working in my shop at night.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1687-2.jpg
Mark loaned me a real good working log splitter. After I drove all the way to Rollag to get it, aired up the tire, moved several tractors out of the way to get it out of the bldg where it was stored, then pulling it home at a cruising speed of 40 mph, filled the engine with oil, put gas in it, greased it, we were ready to go. After all of this, I should have asked him if he had a floodlight to loan me as well. :biglaugh:
All kidding aside, thanks Mark for helping us out.
Jerry Christiansen
03-30-2008, 07:17 PM
Hey Clayton, look on the bright side. You weren't working in a snow storm at 15 below! By the looks of the jacket and lack of cap, you were working in pretty warm weather.
See you next Saturday,
Jerry Christiansen
M Kerkvliet
03-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Flat tire? I didn't know that was going to happen! Hope you didn't have to work too hard to get some air in it!
Glad you got it home OK, and that it is working OK for you! While you are messing around with it, help me figure out build a log lift / work table on the opposite side of the lever like SD John has on his splitter! I have wanted to do that for years, but have not gotten serious enough about it yet...
cjmlarson
03-31-2008, 06:07 AM
Mark
We can get at that some time this summer,and we can paint it russell colors also.Some of the colors would match an Avery!!
cjmlarson
04-02-2008, 08:24 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1705-2.jpg
Those boys from Kentucky sure know how to pick good colors for their equipment!! :thumb:
Case Kid
04-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Clayton,
Your engine almost caused a car accident last night!
I was heading home from work, and as usual glanced over my shoulder as I sped past Larson Welding... This time I saw bright colors parked in front of the door! As my attention was distracted, I slowly wandered into oncoming traffic and the blaring horns brought me back to reality. Once i had regained my composure, I drove around the block to take a sneak peak of the Russell...
You have done an absolutely amazing job of restoring that engine! I have worked on projects and been around projects where the photos seem to make things look nicer than they actually are; this is absolutely not the case in your situation. If anything, the pictures don't do it justice! Very well done.
Looking forward to Saturday to see it come to life.
Nick Olson
cjmlarson
04-03-2008, 08:09 PM
Nick ,
Thank you for the compliment. I am kind of a critic of my own work, and there are a few things I wish would of turned out better. It is a good thing I don't wear a cap very much because it would not fit after reading your post. By the way, I'm glad you avoided the near collision!
Today, Thursday, Jane & I were firing the engine so that we could get our ND inspection done. We now have a tag for MN & ND on our engine.:woohoo1:
Looking forward to Steam Up on Saturday morning, bright & early!
20Avery
04-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Clayton,
I have also been watching this thread almost daily looking for updates. Very impressive, to say the very least. I also happened to drive by Larson's today and saw your beautiful machine sitting in the sun. Can't wait til Saturday's steam up...
Great job, certainly a machine you and your wife should be proud of..
Jace
Big Coulee Russell
04-17-2008, 10:51 PM
The following is a short history of Ed Held and some of the Russell story.
Edward Henry Carl Held was born in a sod house near Bisbee, North Dakota on March 8 1903. Throughout his life he held a respect and love for old threshing equipment that were used on farms from the early 1900’s.
At the time of his collecting these antiques, his farm was not only a haven for these implements, but was an active display and demonstration of these old machines in operation. One could say he was ahead of his time in that his farm, near Egeland ND, was in modern terms, a "Living History Farm" where these machines were displayed and actually put to use threshing grain. Large numbers of people would visit his farm during his threshing shows, which he began in September of 1958. He would also present his steam engines in local area parade celebrations.
His interest in old threshing machines created friendships and promoted the collection of these machines. A friend, Dale Hawk, benefited from Ed’s knowledge and connections by Ed obtaining old equipment for the Hawk Museum near Wolford, North Dakota.
Ed’s collection of steam engines began in 1953 when he purchased a 20-70 Nichols & Shepard. He later purchased three more steam engines. They included a 28-80 Case, a 16-60 Russell, and 24 Minneapolis.
When Ed died in 1975 the four steam engines were given to his three sons, Eldon, Harold, and Roger, and a daughter, Carolyn Thorkildson of Wauban, Minnesota.
The 1901 Russell & Co. engine was purchased around 1957 from Patrick McCurdy of Anamoose, North Dakota. This was to be Carolyn’s engine as it was smaller and cuter than the Case or the Nichols & Shepard.
Carolyn sold her Russell & Co. engine to her relatives, Craig, Kevin, and Clayton Larson in the fall of 2006. At that time they began the restoration of the Russell engine, completing this process in the spring of 2008. The restoration and rejuvenation of the Russell has been, in and for, the memory of Edward Henry Carl Held.
NOTE: At the MSEA Annual Steam Up on April 5, 2008, the 16 Russell ran under load for the first time since 1962. Eldon and Carolyn were present to participate in the event. The performance was outstanding by the Russell as Jerry Christianson collected a reading of 54.6 horsepower. It was a great day for the family and friends to see the engine run again bringing the days and memories gone by back to life again.
40avery
04-18-2008, 10:49 PM
Nice history and tribute. I love to hear the stories behind these old engines.:)
cjmlarson
04-20-2008, 05:12 PM
We had decided earlier this winter, that our first run on the belt was going to be at Steam Up 2008 at Larson Welding. My brother Craig from Omaha was able to make it, but my brother Kevin had other commitments, so he was unable to be there. While running it under load, we found a few small details that were going to need some attention after that Saturday. The biggest one was, we had an excessive amount of speed droop. Also the throttle valve was leaking and that made it hard to move the eccentric lever because it would become steam bound. Jim B at Larson Welding, was able to machine our throttle valve and take care of that issue. He was also able to machine the governor seat, build up the governor valve and machine that back down, so that we had better clearance tolerances in the governor. So you'll notice in the following video, I had to operate the sawyer's lever on the governor, so Jerry could get some sort of HP reading. I had to do this to keep the RPMs fairly close to 250 rpm. All in all, for a ground-up restoration, we had very few issues to address after that day. As you've read in the previous story that Big Coulee Russell posted, part of the Held family that we purchased this engine from, was able to take part in the first belting of the engine. At the beginning of the video, you'll see myself up on top of the wheel, my brother Craig is on the ground, and my dad Jack is standing on the right side of the platform alongside Eldon Held, who was the engineer for the afternoon. Eldon thinks he was probably the last person to operate this engine prior to our restoration, which would have been approximately 1962.
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/?action=view¤t=SteamUp2008Test_0003.flv
Jerry Christiansen
05-19-2008, 09:06 PM
Clayton,
I apologize for being so late with this. I planned on doing a follow up about the Russell after Steam Up and forgot.
We took the Blue Brake to Steam Up and had a great day running the engines. The Russell looked GREAT! It all most seemed a shame that Clayton put a fire in the boiler and then proceeded to get it dirty!
Clayton belted up to the Brake two times. During the first run up in the morning we only went up to 33.3Hp. The chart below shows all the figures.
Force....rpm.....Horsepower
40........390......15.6
44........380......16.7
49........375......18.4
60........374......22.4
65........375......24.4
75........376......28.2
80........370......29.6
90........370......33.3
We stopped so that Clayton could check out the engine to be certain bearings had the correct tightness and were getting lubed. After a check Clayton took the engine back up to speed and we went up higher to take some more readings. We didn't start from the 'bottom', we picked up where we had stopped.
Force...rpm.....Horsepower
114.....415......47.3
116.....410......47.6
125.....415......51.9
Steam engineers knowing that most steam engines are governed around 250rpm might be thinking that the engine was running pretty fast. The rpm listed are for the Brake. When we calculated for the difference in pulley size, 24" on the Brake and 40" on the Russell, the engine was running close to 250rpm.
Non-steam engineers might be wondering why the Russell is called a 16Hp engine when it put out over 50Hp on the belt. The 16Hp rating is 16 BOILER horsepower. Boiler horsepower depends on the heating surface of the boiler, about 10.5 square feet of heating surface equals one boiler horsepower.
Clayton unbelted from the Brake for a while so he could check things out carefully and made a few adjustments. After lunch he came back and we tried it again. This was an interesting run. The Russell's governor wasn't working very well (it is on Clayton's "fix" list). While I was running the Brake and calling out numbers for Casey to record, Tyson looked over my shoulder to read the tachometer. He then gave Clayton signals so that Clayton could operate the governor by hand to maintain engine speed.
The table below only shows numbers near the peak.
Force...rpm...Horsepower
124.....384....47.6
125.....382....47.8
133.....375....49.9
145.....373....54.1
122.....407....49.7
124.....408....50.6
127.....403....51.2
121.....194....47.7
We measured over 50Hp three different times. I am looking forward to measuring the Russell on May 31 when Breakfast on the Farm will be hosted by WMSTR on the Rollag show grounds.
Later,
Jerry Christiansen
waiting to hear the #'s :D
cjmlarson
05-26-2008, 09:05 AM
After Steam Up, we had some repairs that needed to be made. Jim at Larson Welding was able to repair the governor valve & seat. After the short run this weekend, even without a load on it, I can tell it's going to work good. Also, when we got the engine, it had a steam lubricator on it, which makes it difficult to tell if you are wasting oil, or worse than that, not getting enough oil in the engine. I purchased a mechanical oiler, made a bracket with linkage to run it, and that seems to be working well. I was able to locate the small knock that we had at Steam Up, which turned out to be in the crosshead area. I got that repaired so that issue is taken care of. This weekend we steamed up and were testing to get ready for Breakfast on the Farm.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1795-2.jpg
As you'll see in the pictures, our decals finally showed up. Also we hooked the tender wagon up for the first time and made sure that the pole is the correct length so when turning, the engine and wagon would not hit each other.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1807-2.jpg
This is a picture taken in our front yard where we finally had plenty of green grass instead of that nasty white stuff. Jane steered it in our small front yard, but is waiting for Rollag for some more room to practice.
M Kerkvliet
05-27-2008, 02:30 PM
Katy and I stopped by Clayton and Jane's last Sunday afternoon to retrieve my log splitter, and I took a couple of pictures of the Russell before they put it away. One of them is already represented here, but since I already uploaded it, I am going to post it anyway!
What a great day for taking pictures!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/mbkerk/Clayton1.jpg
Here is one of the whole crew! L to R is Clayton, Craig (Big Coulee Russell), and Jane.
... oh, and Huxley (sp?) the BIG dog!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/mbkerk/clayton2.jpg
Thanks so much for the hospitality folks! Not necessary, but appreciated!
60case
05-29-2008, 04:29 PM
nice work ,looks great :thumb:
cjmlarson
06-01-2008, 06:43 PM
We were able to run on the Prony Brake for a short time Saturday morning. Thanks to Jerry C.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1814-2.jpg
Here is Clayton's son, Mike, starting to fire the Russell at 6am Saturday.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1815-2.jpg
Mike getting ready to drive up to the blue Prony Brake.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1819-2.jpg
Here is Mike, Jane & Clayton getting ready for a morning run on Jerry's Prony Brake. What a beautiful morning it was.
cjmlarson
06-01-2008, 06:57 PM
We were lucky enough to get a turn at Earl's Sawmill. Thanks to Merlyn and his crew.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1821-2.jpg
Here we're belted up at Earl's Sawmill and waiting for the GO signal. I think the boys were struggling trying to roll the 1st log on the carriage. :biglaugh:Those of you that were standing there, will know what I'm talking about. There was talk that we wouldn't have enough power to turn the blade, so the first log (twig) was probably 5 inches in diameter. I think this was our test to see if we belonged on the mill or not. I have a picture coming of the first cut of this huge log!! I will post that at a later date. I want to thank all those involved, that went searching for this 'test log'. All kidding aside, thanks to all involved with giving us a turn on the sawmill.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1828-2.jpg
Mike and his Uncle Kevin are firing the Russell while we were belted up to Earl's Sawmill.
I am trying to condense down a video that is proof that the Russell did work quite well running on the mill. I will get that posted later.
russell30-90
06-01-2008, 08:11 PM
Congratulations on a beautiful restoration job. Wish we could of made it up there this weekend, but we look forward to seeing your video on the mill. Can't wait to see it in action at the show this year!
M Kerkvliet
06-01-2008, 09:08 PM
The picture of the test log better show up... I have one if you lose it!
Also, you forgot to mention that Mike only had to back into the belt once! Hit it on the first try! That's quite a feather in his cap! He might be a natural...
Ready for belting up in the dark, in front of thousands for this years spark show Mike? :D
cjmlarson
06-02-2008, 08:14 PM
Yes, you're right Mark. I forgot to mention how well Mike did lining up to the brake and sawmill. He mentioned to me after we were up to the sawmill, that he was nervous about lining up. But he definitely did a great job. He and his uncle Kevin did most of the engineering and firing on Saturday. Mike's involvement in school activities sometimes limits the amount of time he can spend on the hill.
The following is a short clip of him lining up Saturday morning to Jerry's brake.
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/?action=view¤t=BOF2008.flv
cjmlarson
06-02-2008, 08:25 PM
Following are a couple of short video clips of the Russell running Earl's Sawmill. The Avery was going to do the big logs before we belted up, but they had a small issue with the engine so they backed out and let us come in and finish the heavy work. :hide: And believe me, this was one knotted up log that we got to start with. I didn't get to see any of it, but I was told there were nails and bullet remnants in some of the logs that were cut. But at least we have proof in the following video that we were able to get through these logs.
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/?action=view¤t=BOFII.flv
cjmlarson
06-02-2008, 08:32 PM
Not sure who was running the edger, but when Roger was about halfway through this log, a board went in the edger and that was almost too much for the Russell to handle. But thanks to Roger's smooth hand on the carriage handle, he slowed it down enough to get it through without stalling the engine. What a great experience to be able to take part in the operation of the mill.
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/?action=view¤t=BOFIV.flv
40avery
06-02-2008, 09:59 PM
Clayton,
You and your crew did an exemplary job on the mill! :bannana: It was great to see it all work out for you.
See you Fathers day weekend!
Rick
cjmlarson
06-05-2008, 08:37 PM
I finally found the pictures of the log and I said I would post them, so here they are.
I had no idea that this was going to happen, and as you can see in the picture, Roger & his crew are kind of standing in front of the big log, blocking it from my view. They gave me the Go signal, so Mike & I got the Russell up to speed.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/IMG_2211-2.jpg
Due to the size of the log, they actually had to nail it to a 2x6. That way they could get the dogs in place to hold it, so they could make the cut.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/IMG_2222-2.jpg
I heard the governor hit once and then people were hollering at me to get down off the engine because they wanted to talk to me. That's when Merlyn showed me the 'big' piece of slab wood off the first cut. You would have had to been there, but it was quite funny.
M Kerkvliet
06-05-2008, 10:12 PM
Classic Rollag isn't it!:biglaugh:
Looks to me like the Sawmill crew was really enjoying it! Clayton was so concerned about the engine that Jim couldn't get him away from it long enough to show him the log!
You should feel good about the "stunt"! Nobody bothers to mess with a guy if they don't like you!
Congratulations on that first big log Clayton!
cjmlarson
06-17-2008, 09:24 PM
Saturday morning was a good time for Jane & Craig to be able to drive the engine around and get more comfortable with the controls. Rollag is a great place, with lots of room to practice your steam engine driving skills. Craig also brought his grandson, Layton, along for the day. We're hoping that Layton has fun and enjoys helping at Rollag, so that he will continue to come with Grandpa. (Trying to keep the Youth involved!)
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1834-2.jpg
First stop was down by the Prony Brake to use the water hose and fill the tender wagon. Layton is supervising Jane to make sure she does not overflow the tank.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1837-2.jpg
Layton wanted to transfer the water to the tanks on the engine, but he was a little small to handle the pump himself.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1842-2.jpg
The Russell crew was on their way up to Main Street, with Craig at the controls and Clayton & Layton steering. That is where the engines were gathering to be available for the students from Steam School to come out, ask questions and practice operating the controls of the engines.
andymeyer
06-18-2008, 10:16 PM
Clayton I like your Russell it was fun running it on steam school weekend, can i help run it some during the show.
Spencer the Great
06-18-2008, 10:34 PM
I just finished reading both restoration threads and I was amazed. I understand the physics and science behind steam engines but when it comes to actually building one, I cannot comprehend it. The mounting of the engine to the boiler with studs really gets my gears turning. What are the tolerances used in mounting the engine to the boiler? Could the reciprocating motion pound the tapped holes so hard as to leak? If a hierarchy of risks were to be drawn up would engine mounts be near the bottom of the list?
Colin
06-18-2008, 11:58 PM
THose castings are all bolted down tight. usually they have little channels underneath to poor in some lead/babit. that makes them pretty solid and gives some cushion. some companies later when to all steel brackets rivieted to the boiler. that made them more durable for plowing and pulling. no risk of warping fire box sheets or tearing castings off and getting things out of alignment. look at a later Case engine for example. the only studs they have are to hold the dome valve down, and the fire and peep hole doors on.
cjmlarson
06-19-2008, 11:07 AM
Clayton I like your Russell it was fun running it on steam school weekend, can i help run it some during the show.
I guess here is where the bribery comes into play!!!! :hide:you get us on Earls Mill during the show this fall and you can help run it .
cjmlarson
06-19-2008, 11:36 AM
I just finished reading both restoration threads and I was amazed. I understand the physics and science behind steam engines but when it comes to actually building one, I cannot comprehend it. The mounting of the engine to the boiler with studs really gets my gears turning. What are the tolerances used in mounting the engine to the boiler? Could the reciprocating motion pound the tapped holes so hard as to leak? If a hierarchy of risks were to be drawn up would engine mounts be near the bottom of the list?
Spencer, the new boiler is identical in dia.as the old boiler so the curve of all the brackets fit real nice and tight.Also the crank mounting towers have 9 studs in one and 12 studs in the other . these are 5/8 inch studs so after tightening them down there is not going to be any problems with the pounding of the engine.being a 1901 engine you can see with other engines as years progressed better technology came with also.Colin is correct in saying that some of the brackets have channels under them so you can pour lead under them.I only poured lead under the crank towers only. the original boiler and engine did not have any lead under any of the brackets so I am not sure why I did that .................may be I wanted to practice pouring lead;).The ones(studs)that were hardest on the boilers for flexing would be the ones down towards the bottom of the boiler where the pulling and twisting is going on when you pulling things.This meaning the axle mounts and differential shaft.The thing to remember after rigamortis sets in nothing should leak or move.
Spencer the Great
06-19-2008, 01:45 PM
Again I am at a loss for words. Simply amazing. What kind of jig is required to build a riveted boiler from the ground up? I would think that making the distance from the inner firebox walls and the boiler shell even would be one of the more difficult of things to do.
cjmlarson
06-19-2008, 08:57 PM
They are made seperatly then the fire box is slipped up into the shell of the boiler and then all the holes are drilled all the way through for the stay bolts,then they are welded both inside and out.Woops I almost forgot the mud legs are welded in at that time also.Everything is 100% weld penetration.The plans have to be drew up and oked before they can even start the project to get a ASME boiler,
andymeyer
06-19-2008, 10:22 PM
They are made seperatly then the fire box is slipped up into the shell of the boiler and then all the holes are drilled all the way through for the stay bolts,then they are welded both inside and out.Woops I almost forgot the mud legs are welded in at that time also.Everything is 100% weld penetration.The plans have to be drew up and oked before they can even start the project to get a ASME boiler,
Clayton, how about Monday evening at 6:00 their isnt as many people to distract you at that time.
cjmlarson
06-20-2008, 06:41 AM
Your a funny guy Andy! But I know you can do better than that.Lets see............................how about noon on saturday and you can back it into the belt.
Goat Boy
06-20-2008, 10:21 AM
I'm Wondering if you had any problems with Tapping the holes for the studs and producing a leak free joint... From what I seen some of the newer boiler plate isn't the easiest to tap and get Good threads... Any Special place to get a suitable 12 X 5/8 Tap...????
I'll Probably be Reboilering a Middle Aged Case in the future... And yes theres at Least 24 ? holes that will have to be Drilled and Tapped to hold the various Pieces on... Thanks...
cjmlarson
06-21-2008, 05:55 AM
I will get you the name of the place I got my taps from I just dont have it with me at this time. As long as you have good sharp taps there should be no problem .But if they get dull or have a single chip out of one tooth you will have a lot of trouble.Also treat them with care, they are quite expensive.
Brad Kelley
06-22-2008, 09:36 PM
Goat Boy,
McMaster-Carr has special taps, and I bought a 5/8-12 tap to chase the right side crank bearing bracket threads in my 1903 Case boiler. Unfortunately the McMaster 5/8-12 tap is a hair too small, but with some redneck engineering still did the job chasing the threads. 1903 was apparently still too early for any standard fastener specs, so the holes in my boiler are all odd-ball by today's standards. One thing I've learned by working on my engine, is that having a lathe handy for trial and error fitting is almost a mandatory requirement.
You may have better luck depending on the date of your engine.
Good luck.
Spencer,
In reading my old Huber steam engine catalogs, they mention "hand chipping" all the castings for perfect fit to each boiler. If the casting fits the boiler plate very well it is possible that the friction between the two surfaces clamped together actually provides most of the strength in the joint, and the studs will only have a tension load rather than shear. The riveted joints in boilers also have this property.
cjmlarson
06-23-2008, 07:26 AM
Goat Boy, check your PMs
Goat Boy
06-23-2008, 10:58 AM
Thanks Guys... Yes I found that Mcmaster and Enco had the 12 TPI taps available.... But we Know that the ones that Clayton used were succesfull... :) And thats a Good Thing...
Brad; Yes a Lathe and a Mill with a boring head are indispensible when messing with these things.... For making them oddball studs... Making egg shaped holes round and a host of other things.... The patient in question is a 30 HP Case and You Know the rest of the story... So far anyway...
Jerry Christiansen
07-02-2008, 10:35 PM
Hi Clayton and all,
I am a lot pokey. These results should have been shown here a long time ago. When the Russell ran at Steam Up the governor wasn't working. By the time Breakfast On the Farm happened, the governor had been fixed. After Clayton did some fine tuning, we ran some horsepower tests.
When we did the first test Clayton held the pressure at 120psi and the nozzle was in the exhaust pipe. Below are some of the reading we got. We stopped measuring when a gasket in the exhaust pipe decided to come out.
Pounds...RPM.....Hp
80.........354......28.3
89.........351......31.2
100.......333.......33.3
110.......303.......33.3
I am not certain if the 33.3Hp is the maximum. The large drop in RPM suggest the next measurment with a higher number of pounds would probably be less. Maybe 105 pounds would have given a slightly higher value. If the 33.3HP isn't the maximum, it is very close.
Clayton put the gasket back in and removed the nozzle. He brought the Russell back up to 120psi and we did another run. Some of the numbers are listed below.
Pounds...RPM....HP
105........371....38.9
114........367....41.8
125........256....44.5
135........344....46.4
I am not certain why we stopped measuring when we did. Since the numbers are still going up we can not be certain the 46.4Hp is a maximum value. Looking at the 100psi and 110psi from the first run and comparing them to the 105psi and 114psi fromt the second run, we can see that power went up when the nozzle was removed.
We stopped for a bit and the Russell crew checked the engine over to be certain that lubrication was getting where is was needed. This time the Russell was fired up to 140psi and with the nozzle out, we got the following data.
Pounds...RPM....Hp
161.......358.....57.6
170.......355.....60.3
178.......345.....61.4
182.......335.....60.9
186.......324.....60.2
190.......299.....56.8
This time we got enough readings that the power values go up and then start coming back down. The data definately shows a maximum of 61.4Hp at 178 pounds 345prm. We did repeat the 61Hp reading a few more times so we can be confident it wasn't a one time fluke.
Later,
Jerry Christiansen
cjmlarson
07-06-2008, 08:27 PM
Some of you know there has been a small knock in the Russell since Steam Up 08. For those of you that don't, we have been struggling to find the origin of this issue. I have had 3 areas of the engine apart at 3 different times. To keep a very long story short, the knock would go away but would return after running the engine for a short period of time. In the end, we found that the piston was ever so slightly loose, on the new piston rod. After repairing this, and putting everything back together on the 4th of July, Jane & I went out on July 5 and fired the engine. Jerry C was kind enough to run the red Prony Brake so we could test the repairs.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1853-2.jpg
Here Jane is firing the Russell and Jerry was giving us a good, long, hard, steady pull.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1855-2.jpg
Here Jerry is running the Brake with his helper (sorry, do not remember his name).
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1849-2.jpg
Jerry started us out with a light load, and we were letting everything get good & warmed up. Once we had good pressure, I told Jerry "Let's give her a good run". As we were up towards the peak, the belt decided to give up.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1850-2.jpg
You'll see here, we were lucky that the belt did not get caught up in the flywheel.
cjmlarson
07-06-2008, 08:40 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1851-2.jpg
I had to take a picture of this. Jerry said that this was WMSTR's best belt they had. So the little Russell was able to pull apart the quality belt that has withstood the test of many bigger engines.:hide:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1856-2.jpg
Just a view showing the ends that need to be laced together.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1854-2.jpg
Jerry went up to Earl's Sawmill and asked Merlyn if we could borrow their belt. This picture shows us up and running again with the belt from Earl's.
We had a very good day of running. The engine is quiet and we got some real good numbers running on the red brake. Jerry will probably post the numbers that he got. This is the first time that we've run on the red brake and if you look at this last picture, you will see how centered the belt is on the flywheel. Jane was steering us into the brake while belting up. Between her & Mike, I don't think I can compete with how well they've done. :bannana:
Jerry Christiansen
07-06-2008, 10:16 PM
Hi all,
Jane and I pulled in to Rollag about 10:00am on 4 July. Later that morning I stopped by the Nelson Building to see who was working inside and there Clatyon was making a new gasket for the Russell's steam chest. He said that the steam chest cover had been off and on so many times during the search for the knock that all he had to do was toss the nuts in the general direction and they screwed themselves on without any help. As we talked I said that the Red Brake was ready if he wanted to run it up.
The next morning Jake Werner and I were on our way to clean up the block potty in the gas engine area when the Russell chuffed by headed for the Brake. What a great way to start the day! Instead of cleaning a bathroom, we got to check out the Russell on the Brake.
Clayton's pictures tell the story very well. On the picture that shows my good side, Jake is standing to my left. This time we got a complete run. As we pulled the Russell the horsepower numbers went up, peaked and then started coming back down. The belt broke just as I tightended the brake to 370 pounds (about 1940Ft-Lb of torque) on the scale and I didn't have time to check the rpm.
Below is a partial list of the values.
Pounds..RPM...Hp
300......222....66.6
310......218....67.6
320......212....67.8
330......206....68.0
340......197....67.0
350......186....65.0
360......175....63.0
We were just finishing the pull when the belt broke. As the belt was lying on the ground resting we did the calculations. I wanted to get some more reading between 320 pounds and 340 pounds. We belted the enigne up again with a borrowed belt. We then decided not to pull the the maximum again, but instead pulled about a 40 horsepower load to be sure the knock didn't come back. Clayton did a little more fine tuning on the governor, too.
You may notice that the pounds numbers increase 10 pounds each time and in earlier posts that didn't happen. That shows an advantage the dial scale on the Red Brake has over the digital scale on the Blue Brake. The dial scale is much easier to adjust to a given value than the digital.
Later,
Jerry Christiansen
Clayton,
What means are used to attach the piston to the rod?
Have a good one,
Colt
M Kerkvliet
07-07-2008, 02:23 PM
We had a very good day of running. The engine is quiet ...
Katy and I heard it working all the way over at our camper!
That was a "good" kind of quiet though...
Congratulations on getting the knock figured out Clayton, and good job on driving into the belt Jane!
cjmlarson
07-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Clayton,
What means are used to attach the piston to the rod?
Have a good one,
Colt
Hi Colt,
The piston rod is screwed into the piston until the threads get tight, then you peen the rod over where it sticks through the piston.There are many different ways of securing the pistons depending on the brand of engine. Some of the engines have a nut that secures them,and then there are some that have a shoulder and then you just peen them.And there is other methods also. We have come to the conclusion that this one was not tightened up enough the first time I put it together.
cjmlarson
10-05-2008, 08:12 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_1999-2.jpg
Hooked up to the water tender wagon, with the 16 Portable behind, ready for the first parade of 2008 show.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/cjmlarson/100_2007-2.jpg
We got our turn on Earl's Sawmill on Saturday morning. When we arrived to start firing and greasing the engine, we found Earl's crew (pranksters that they are) hanging Russell memorabilia. If you look back in this thread, you'll see that this is the first log that the Russell cut at the mill during Breakfast on the Farm. Again, I was so busy with making sure the Russell was ready to go, that it had to be pointed out to me what they had done. I'll tell you folks, there is never a dull moment working with Merlyn, Roger and the rest of the crew at Earl's Sawmill. :rof:
M Kerkvliet
10-05-2008, 09:38 PM
:rof:
That is a classic! I understand there are more items to be added...
cjmlarson
10-08-2008, 08:30 AM
That is what I here, and no it is not from the Russell crew!! I think it is from a certain Minneapolis crew.:biglaugh:
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