EMS on the Hill

[jnielsen]

I would like to hear from other EMS personel that spend time on the hill. I believe that we need to coordinate equipment and personel to ensure good first responder service to all. So if anyone has any ideas, conceerns, suggestions i would like to hear from you. my contacts are jnielsen@umn.edu and cell 218.289.2277 thanks

[Lee]

I think having an AED (Automated External Defibrillator) would be a good idea to have on the grounds, probably in the Admin building. They have come down in price and are very user friendly. I pray it never would have to be used and it isn't a guarantee, but the track record at schools, casinos and airports speaks for itself. The sooner it can be brought to the patient the better.

[M Kerkvliet]

This is not my area of expertise on the board, and I agree... first responders are an important part of potentially saving someones life, but... (there is always a but...!) we do need to be very careful about liability with what we do at the WMSTR member level, or as a function of services provided by our members as part of the operation of the show.

I AM NOT trying to shut you down Jeff, but just want you to be aware that we do hire an ambulance service every year, and they are on the grounds during show hours. Not sure about night time. I think there is a place for an EMS group within our organization, but I am not sure how it should be administered.

Please keep the Board of Directors informed as to your intentions. I am sure we can come up with some sort of plan!

Say "hi" to Cory!

[Sean Nelson]

Yes Mark we need to take liability into account. We do need to do something though. AEDs are easy and safe to use even for the untrained. I definently think we should get one if not more than one to reduce patient downtime. I don't know if the ambulance is there at night. Are they ALS? What about just before the show when it is also busy? I would also include fire prevention and control into this discussion. Our exhibits are a fire hazard one trailer fire could spread to many very quickly. I loved seeing the water tender at the threshing.

[jnielsen]

I agree with Sean that fire is another concern, I applaud the ambulance service that is on site during the show they do a wonderful job for all of us. But as Sean pointed out there is alot of activity pre show and we do not have them (the ambulance) on the grounds.

All I am trying to do is get together all of the folks like myself that spend alot of time on the hill who are trained in ems so we can compare notes and concerns. What equipment would benifit all if it was available? how we would handle events if they come up.

[Sean Nelson]

Speaking of EMS had to run on a call. Whom ever had the forthought to have the water tender on standby for the threshing good thinking and thank you. Also thanks to Ellis Aakre for putting it in service and to whoever drained and winterized it every year. It is the only show owned apparatus capable of fire control. We should give thought to more apparatus, equipment and a rundown on operation of apparatus considering it may operate different (older) than what trained members may be used to. I am hopeing that the Fire Station project may focus more thought on Fire and EMS. Also the Ambulance service does a great job many thanks to them.

Sean FF/EMT

[Kenronsberg]

I think what Jeff is saying is more for the summer, and just before the show before the ambulance crew is out at the hill. As one of the guys who obtained shall we say a couple of blisters prior to the show, I can tell you how happy I was that Jeff had his bag in his car. After I was able to get the ice off my hands Jeff wrapped the up for me. ( I was able to use the ambulance crew a few days later to drain off a little fluid) Without guys like Jeff who bring thier EMS stuff with them I think you'd be hard pressed to find as much as a band-aid. ( except for Tom Halls' wallet) I think it would be very benificial for WMSTR to invest in some kind of first aid equipment.
As for the liability factor, I know from what training I had just in first-aid & CPR that the Good Samaritan Act in the state kind of covers that.
Not at all saying there shouldn't be board approval, but something the board certianly should address.
Ken Ronsberg

[M Kerkvliet]

Not at all saying there shouldn't be board approval, but something the board certianly should address.
Ken Ronsberg

Agreed! When you guys all get together, figure out how you think we should address these concerns and come to a board meeting. Ellis and Rick are both extremely close to this subject, and I am sure they would like to hear more!

FYI, Gary Muhl is in charge of the "Dustbuster" water truck and makes sure it is maintained every year. I think he winterizes both the Dustbuster and the Thirst Quencher every year, though this past fall Jerry and Jane Christiansen and myself did the Thirst Quencher. Gary checked to make sure we didn't miss anything! Rick Halldorson was largely responsible for the fire protection being on hand for the threshing demonstration.

[Sean Nelson]

Thanks to Gary, Jerry, Jane and Mark for winterizing the dustbuster and thirst quencher. Can those trucks be retrofitted to also act as water tenders ( able to connect to and supply water to fire apparatus ). The show owned capable fire apparatus I speak of is the Hawley Rural FD water tender. It has 1; 1 1/2 inch attack line with nozzle and intake and discharge ports for 2 1/2 inch line ( has an adapter to make 1 1/2 inch useful ) also a booster reel for grass fires. This tender while effective is older than modern automatics. It would only take a run through with members that are trained FFs to bring them up to speed on its differences to what they are used to. As for EMS we also need to meet and go over ideas. I will make sure to pack a bigger aid kit from now on. Our biggest issue is we become a sizeable town for part of the year and small for the rest. If you ever want to know how much ask Warren or my dad about electrical needs. Rick thank you for protecting us during the threshing especially as I was out there causing more than my share of sparks I am sure.

[Lt. Steve Todd]

Good evening. I received a message from Jeff Neilson concerning emergency services at Steamer Hill. I'll have to answer it on the forum as my computer is not fully cooperating this evening.

Many of you posting here bring up some excellent points that have certainly been concerns of mine for several years. Rollag is at high distance points (13 Miles) from the bases of the emergency service providers such as fire and EMS.

We cannot allow WMSTR members who are non-law enforcement access to our radio system. There's several reasons for this but the main concerns are security, cost and safety. We are also in a transition to a digital radio system and the cost for a portable radio with battery is approximately $3,800. Cellular phones will provide contact with our dispatch center and appropriate units will be sent to assist you. As stated earlier, your call may initially go to the MN State Patrol. Once you inform the MSP dispatcher that your emergency is not traffic related they will transfer you to our dispatch center.

Barnesville Ambulance Service is on standby at Steamer Hill during each day of the show from 8:00am until 5:00pm. Deputies are stationed at Steamer Hill 24 hours each day from Thursday afternoon thru late Monday afternoon. I put an AED in our command post while preparing for the show, it stays there for the duration of the show.

AED's are reasonably priced and they do work. We have our employees go thru a training class on the AED's at the same time we do CPR/first aid. You see them placed in many other public places such as mall's, airports and schools. The liabilities for your organization would be minimal in my opinion. The device is very sophisticated, it will not shock unless certain criteria are met. This would be a good purchase for WMSTR and I agree the Administration Building would be a good place to keep it. The batteries do go bad on these devices and they are very expensive to replace.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me. My office phone is (218) 299-7577.
Lt. Steve Todd
Clay County Sheriff's Office

[Sean Nelson]

Is Barnsville Ambulance ALS?
Thanks for the info on the AED I did not know. The grounds are large and the downtime a patient might suffer great ( recognition + notification + time get AED to patient ). That is during the show when the AED is present. I think we should have a few staged around the grounds. All members should know their locations. Lt Steve is right they are starting to be staged like fire extinguishers in other places. They are safe will not shock unless a shockable heart rhythm is present. They are designed to be used by people who have no idea how they work, they will tell the operator everything they need to do. There is probably less liability in having them then in not. They is probably less risk in using them then in operating a fire extinguisher. When I say it will tell you how to use it it actually says out loud what to do. If you do anything wrong it tells you what is wrong and how to fix it.

[40avery]

Good discussion.

I will get the details from FM ambulance and see what we would have to do to get AED’s in place in some areas of the show and bring it up at a future board meeting. At $1000.00 each or more we will not have them in as many places as fire extinguishers.

Unless things have changed in the past 12 to 18 months we will have to develop a program, assure there are trained people in the areas of the AED’s and have a medical doctor write a prescription for them. Laws change quickly though so some of this may not pertain to us. The staff at FM stays up on these things and also sells the units so they are a good resource.

Dust buster has a couple of fire nozzles on board and while it is not rated fire apparatus we have used it. It is not well set up for support of other fire apparatus but we did have a diffuser nozzle on board to allow us to pump off to a drop tank if necessary.

We need to keep in mind that as a volunteer organization we do not want to get into the business of full fire fighting. We need to be able to protect exposures and fight “incipient” stage fires on the grounds. We will want to hold things at bay as best we can until the pro’s get there. There are several of us on the grounds that are firefighters (both paid and volunteer) but without a fire department to work under and the “proper “ equipment to use we will not be risking life and limb either.

I do not know if any of our members are members of HERT and if so if there is any assistance they can give. The trouble comes in verifying the level of training that people actually have and if it is current. It is the responsibility of any department or rescue squad to do this and it can be a logistical problem in the type of system we would be working under.

Any additional organization is a good thing. We just have to realize where our limitations lie and provide help up to that point.

Rick

[Sean Nelson]

Thanks for the info on the dustbuster and the AEDs Rick. Very good point on what we can do when it comes to fire suppression. This is exactly what I am advocating. Incipent fires and exposures or surround and drown type evolutions ( safe distance smaller fire ) we can do. We should not be takeing risks.

[80pfd]

Rick;
A few questions after reading the postings.
Where is the Hawley engine kept when it is not show time? When I was there last July, I kicked myself for not seeking it out.
Does the engine have a drop tank? If not, has there been any thought of seeking an older 500gal. tank which is no longer being used by a fire department? I can ask questions in my area and, if lucky, bring one up. I think I can fit one on/in my fifth-wheel camper(?). When I joined the Prophetstown Fire Department in 1980, all our tenders had 500g. tanks. Till the 1,000 and 1,500 gal. units came out. When I retired in 2002, we had a 500 gal. tank stored in the district for training purposes.
Does the Hawley engine have a front-mount pump, or is it a mid-ship?Single stage or two stage volume pump? High pressure - pto pump?
What is the capacity of the booster tank?
How much hose is on board the engine? What size is it?
What nozzles and fittings are available?
What is HERT?
What is the view from the fire tower? During the show, can someone be up there with field glasses and a radio to see a problem quicker?
Even though I retired from active service in firefighting, I still keep a jump-bag of stuff in case of emergencies. I also try to pick up first responder refresher training through work.
I agree with the idea that firefighting with Rollag equipment and people should be for incipient fires and to contain a fire from spreading to other exposures. We can make an attempt to slow down an interior fire through doors and windows untill Barnesville or Hawley can get there and do an interior attack. I can honestly say " Been there / done that"
Just trying to help when / where I can.
Stay safe.
Paul

[40avery]

Paul,

A few questions? Whew you will have to let me catch my breath if you ever ask a lot of questions!:hide:

All are good background questions.

The Hawley engine does indeed have a drop tank on it. If you could get another one donated I would bring it to the board for approval. We could use the spare even if we stuck it away for a while.

Hawley engine is a PTO driven mid mount pump 500GPM. I remember it as a single stage pump which would put it in the neighborhood of a 150psi unit.

I have never asked about the tank but it would appear to be 750 gallon. It just seems bigger than 500 but I could be fooled there.

There is a couple hundred feet of 1 1/2 inch line on board and at least one nozzle. There is also a quick dump on it. Not a Newton but it is a large butterfly.

We could use some other apparatus if we are going to get serious about making the unit a first response unit. I do not know if the pump is in shape to draft but if not it is not far away. We could get a service outfit to work it over for us.

Fire tower is not very user friendly I would not recommend anyone climbing it and using it.

HERT is Hawley's medical first response team.

It is fun to hear from some fellow firefighters. It would be good to get together some time on the hill.

I hope I covered all the questions. If not quote what I missed and I will try and get the answers.

Rick

[80pfd]

Rick;
Hot Dawg!!
I haven't drafted since I retired. If my hopes/plans for Steam School time off work pan out, I would love to get used to the engine.
I will attempt to try and get some hose from the Prophetstown district. Any time new handlines come in, they are 1 3/4" As of 5 yrs ago, there were two older style, non-pistol grip, 1 1/2" fog nozzles in a back room cabinet.
I will see what I can do down south here in Illinois.
Paul

[40avery]

Roger that!:)

I will look it over this spring and see what may be ahead of us for a tune up! If the bill gets too big it will have to wait for a year and we will put in a budget item for it. The nozzles and hose you speak of would be a welcome addition.

Thanks

Rick

[Sean Nelson]

Hawley Tender is probably closer to a 1000 gallons or more, but I am not sure exactly.

It is stored in the new small engine building attached to the DVD and buckle stand with rest of the fire apparatus that winters at Rollag.

150 to 200 ft of 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 line with a relatively newer pistolgrip combination nozzle.

One older 2 1/2 nozzle.

It has a drop tank it was in the way of the attack line so we moved it. It might still be behind some threshing machines. It has a strainer but no hard suction hose.

One booster reel with nozzle.

I will keep my eyes out for surplus equipment in good shape.

Rick excellent idea we should all get together on the hill.

[80pfd]

Guys;
By the way;
What size is the suction? 4" or 2 1/2" ? Gated outside or 1/4 turn valve inside the panel?
My wife said that a drop tank would not fit through the door of our camper.
NO PROBLEM !!
I'll duct tape it to the back ladder which goes from the bumper to the roof. Could be worse. At least I'm not hauling wet 1 3/4" handline fresh from a hog barn fire.
Paul

[40avery]

Paul,

Just tell her it is a portable pool you are going to use in the campground!:hide:

I will look it over in the spring ad forward you all the details.

Rick

[Sean Nelson]

Paul can't remember the steamer port size but I am pretty sure it is into the pump with out a valve. there are additional 2 1/2 intake ports I do not know how well any would draft.

No matter what I say my wife, after 10 years of me in the Fire service, will recognize Fire equipment, but will humor me and let me haul it 1500 miles anyway.:biglaugh:

She is wonderful and long suffering.:D

Fire Apparatus should be Red and should have a federal Q2B siren.:D

[40avery]

I do not remember a primer pump on the unit so I do not think we will be doing any effective drafting. The protocol I would promote in any circumstance would be to establish one 1 1/2 inch line on a perimeter defense and then get the dust buster to pump direct into the top of the pumpers supply tank with a 2 1/2. That would give us 2500 gallons to work with. The thirst quencher would add another 1800 gallon supply in back up and could pump direct also with a 2 1/2. If the cavalry has not ridden into the battle by then it probably won't matter.

If we succeed in what it seems we are shooting for and get a first response unit together for the show we may need to think of two separate facilities for the fire department. A small steel sided building out of the main fray of the show but still accessible and the period fire hall we are talking about for the more vintage equipment to reside.

At any rate this is more active discussions on all of these fronts than I have heard since I have been on the show grounds. I hope it all takes off and develops the way I know it can in the coming years. We should start thinking about a meeting at the hill some weekend this summer to get some live discussion going.:bannana:

Rick

[80pfd]

Guys;
Happy New Year!!
I'm thinking that the Hawley engine, if not having a geared primer pump, may be primed by either the exhaust or engine vacumn ( subject to being told that I'm out of my mind). When I joined the Prophetstown Dept., our older engines were of the 1958 to 1966 range, with Barton-American front mount pumps. The primers worked off engine vacumn off the intake manifold.
In our area, we have a former Rock Falls Fire Department firefighter who started his own business servicing/repairing fire apparatus. Jerry ( who also owns one of the first International Harvester delivery trucks) is certified in pump repairs of any fire pump obsolete, or now on the market. He calls his business " Preventative Maintenence Service", or "PMS" for short (you can do your own one-liners). He and others taught me a lot about priming at a fire scene, and not losing water to the guys at the end of the hose.
I am asking him to help me with a more large-area search for equipment.
My wife is a long-suffering lady also. I'm thankful that she only rolls her eyes when I talk about bringing the equipment.
My only ideas, for now, of a building for permanent housing of the Hawley engine, is to place the structure more in an "open" area. Maybe, across the road from the fire tower. Also; the constuction of the building is not limited to a pole-barn structure.

'Nuff said for now.
Paul

[40avery]

Paul,

I know the styles of primers you are talking about. I have been an apparatus operator on the ERFD for fifteen years now. I have two sons on the entry team both RIT trained. I am very aware of the need to keep the hose hard!!

That is why I say that feeding the tank from the other water trucks is simple and easy to train people to do.

A dedicated well trained operator can prime from a drop tank with just tank supply but it gets tricky and your valves have to be in good shape. I Feel we need to keep to the KISS principal and make the protocol something anyone can set up with minimal training.

Rick

[jnielsen]

Happy New Year to all.
I have contacted Life flight out of Fargo and they would love to come to the hill this spring and give a demo (yes they will bring a helicopter) They would give us a presentation about how they work and what they would need from us. I think we should schedule this presentation when the majority of the board and as many EMS members as possible could be present. Any suggestions as to a date would be appreciated. Also i am trying to gather a list of names and email addresses of members who are EMS trained so we can continue this conversation. You can contact me directly at jnielsen@umn.edu.
It sounds like we have a lot of fire fighters and equipment on the grounds as well and I for one would like to be more up to date on our equipment operation.

Jeff

[40avery]

Good job Jeff,

We have an all day meeting coming up for the BOD and I will bring it up. I have been through their LZ management course three times now and I always get something new out of it.

They have had to land on the grounds before and the choice of LZ's was poor! They set them down on the gravel near the blue water tower which was OK for the open area but the sand that tore loose put the chopper down for maintenance. We want to serve them better than that as they serve us.

I guess I would like to see if we could get a first response group together face to face on the grounds to talk some of these things over and then make a plan. I am thinking that we should shoot for mid to late July for a lifeflight training but it is too early to give them a firm date right now.

I am glad you will take the lead in gathering the names.

Any one that sees this post that has any ratings (EMT, First Responder, Firefighter, RIT, Apparatus Operator, First Aid, Etc.) please E-mail or PM Jeff as noted in the previous post.

Getting a list together is a good Idea. We will put this on the list of announcements for the safety meetings this year and that should get us some more response also.

Rick

[80pfd]

Helicopter Landing Zone -- You never know when it will be needed;
This organization has so many different types of talent and the people who can use it.
Those with vision or a good imagination -- some early morning when all is calm, pull up on the top of steamer hill and survey the grounds. Is there a hill which could be flattened, or a valley which could have some fill, without creating other problems. How much area is needed for the landing zone and a safe approach. How will the touch-down point be marked.
Those who know soil -- what kind of soil and cover can be used for a firm ground even if there is a lot of rain.Would some form of drainage need to be utilized.
The equipment to do the work -- WMSTR has equipment on the grounds to do what is needed, or members seem to find out where a needed piece can be borrowed. The last I knew, the Case roller was certified for steam-up. Could it be used to pack the base of the landing zone.
Just ideas for thought.
Paul

[40avery]

A permanent LZ is an interesting thought.

The minimum is 100 ft diameter. There should be no wires or other overhead hazards near. Marking should be the universal H and we would need to have a wind sock or the LZIC would still have to designate wind direction. I will talk to Mark K about getting a radio programmed for their frequency. Even though the local authorities would have it on their radios one radio with their frequency would be good.

[Sean Nelson]

We periodically train with Airlift NW ( our medivac service ). We also set up designated LZs in the Fire District including GPS so we could tell the chopper exactly where to land. One of our SOPs is to wet down the LZ to reduce the amount of sand and gravel flying up.

[40avery]

That certainly would have helped but with our surface on the grounds it will still be a potential hazard to the bird and the spectators which there will certainly be many.

[80pfd]

I stopped at the Prophetstown fire station today. I talked with the captain and came home with some toys.
I was given; 3 - Akron, Imperial 60/95, adjustable fog nozzles and 2 - 4" to 2 1/2", double female steamer fittings. All our district engines are now 5" and 2 1/2" pump suctions. They do not have any 500 gal. drop tanks anymore. However; there are 3 - 1,000 gal. tanks at the Hooppole station for anyone who wants one. The smallest one in the district is 1,500 gal. The newest tender carries a 3,200 gal. one.
Need a new swimming pool?
Paul

[40avery]

A 1000 gallon tank would probably be an overload for your camper ladder!

[slugger]

could we work with the ems that staffs the show to train some people as first responders. I am a first responder where I work and we do monthly training sessions, all of the ert (emergency response team) are cpr and aed trained.
Just a thought.
sign me up If you get that started.

slugger

[Larry Elton]

I am Anne Elton, Larrys wife and have been involved in EMS for over 30 years as a member of Hawley Rescue,
I have been on numerus calls to WMSTR during the year not only during the show.
I am also active with this new group who is trying to get an AED for on the grounds
We have talked with HERT Hawley Rescue to see if we can go through their medical advisor and get to be able to give O2 if needed it is a drug and without his permision we cold not give O2.
WMSTR is in Barnesville ambulances territory and also in HERT's district so both respond when dispatched by the county.
Barnesville ambulance is advanced life support if there are perimedics on duty other wise they are basic life support and in a severe case FM ambulance is dispatched
We are also planning on talking to LIFE FLIGHT as to a landing Zone on or near the grounds.
Thank you for giving us some thought on this as we would like to help in any way we can
Anne L. Elton

[jnielsen]

Hi all
Where did the summer go?
We are still trying to gather equipment for the EMS group.
When would be a good time to schedule landing zone training.
I would like to have as many people as possible in attendance for the training. So any suggestions as to a date would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff

[40avery]

To get the most people involved I would suggest that we try it on Saturday afternoon/evening the weekend before the show. What do others think?

[Larry Elton]

Sat the 23rd of Aug would be a good day to set up L Z AND GET THE CREW TOGETHER
I called their office and need to call again unless someone else has or wants to contact them for when Lifeflight can come
I will be bringing a HERT Rig to nursing home day so we have equipment to use that day and camping on the Horse camp on Mondsy and maybe Tues evening.
Anne L. Elton