22HP Minneapolis Return Flue Restoration

[ICLIDA]

Jeff Knutson has been working on a project for a few years now and it's starting to take shape. I am going to start a thread about Jeff's latest adventure and others can add as they see fit. Jeff was infected with the "steam bug" a few years back and has become a huge supporter of the Great Minneapolis Line" of steam engines and threshing machines. Jeff owns a 20 hp Minneapolis steam engine #8702 which is the 5th to the last engine built by the Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company. Jeff also has a few other engines waiting to be brought back to service. I think that the infection that Jeff has may have been given to him by the one we know as Gerald Parker. I will add a few pictures every few days and try to give some explination as to what Jeff has been up to in his spare time.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0002.jpg
This is Jeff drilling some holes with a "Slugger Drill Bit". These are 2 1/2" holes that can be drilled in a 1/2" thick plate in 5.4 seconds, but it takes 17.31 horsepower to do it. This was done last Memorial day weekend when Jeff, Gerry Parker and I went over to Mike Wahl's shop in Wisconsin to do some machining work.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0004.jpg

Here is a closeup of the drill bit we used.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0019.jpg

The only way to drill holes!

Tom

[M Kerkvliet]

Looks like the flue sheet for his return flue! I have been watching the progress of this engine at Larson Welding, and it is really looking great! I was hoping someone was going to post something here sooner or later!

Outstanding project guys... Looking forward to watching this thread progress.

[ICLIDA]

Here are a few more pictures from our weekend at Mike's.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0014.jpg

There is lots of smoke when you use these bits.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0003.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0064.jpg

Here is Jeff drilling smaller holes using the same type of drill bit.

In 2 days we had enough shavings to fill a 55 gallon drum.

[M Kerkvliet]

No lubrication on the bits?

What did you cut the hand holes with?

Looks like Jeff has a lot of neat stuff in his shop. Looking forward to more pictures Tom! Keep this up, and you might have to invest in a broadband connection!

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
The lubrication we used was a special lube that Mike Wahl got from where he works. It looks almost like a bar of soap and we just filled the teeth for about the first 1/2". It melted into the groove as the drilling started and didn't make the mess that traditional cutting oil does.

I will get to the handholes in some of the next posts.

It's not Jeff's shop, it's Mike Wahl's over in Marytown Wisconsin. Marytown could take Rollag in a war, but not by much, it's very small. Mike does have alot of nice equipement and he even has 3 phase power! We had a great time when we went over there.

Tom

[M Kerkvliet]

It's not Jeff's shop, it's Mike Wahl's over in Marytown Wisconsin.

I knew that... :bonk: Just one of those brain spasm things! Maybe old age!

[ICLIDA]

Mark is correct that the picture is one of the tubesheets for Jeff's 22 horsepower Minneapolis Return Flue Tandem Compound Steam Engine. There were 2 of these engines at "Steam Engine Joe's" (Joe Rynda) in Montgomery Minnesota. Joe had a collection of over 50 steam engines and most of them were sold at a huge auction sale a few years ago. There were 3 Minneapolis Return Flue steam engines at the sale and Jeff purchased both of the 22 HP Tandem Compound Engines. The other Return Flue went to Iowa. I believe that both of the engines Jeff got were built in 1899 and the one he is using most of the parts from is number 2065. Both of these engines were very complete and were in very good shape, at least for a starting point for a rebuild, considering tht they had probably sat outside in Mongomery for about 60 years. I first learned of these engines back in 1987 when we were getting ready for the Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company Centenial Exposition held at Rollag. I always wanted to get one of these engines and build a new boiler for it and restore it, but I am very happy that these engines ended up with Jeff.

Mark asked about handholes in one of the previous posts. Jeff purchased new handholes that are formed to fit the inside radius of the barrel. To assist in cutting the holes in the boiler we had a template made from 3/8" thick plate. We had it cut on a burn table with an electronic eye to follow a CAD drawing layout and then we had the plate "bumped" in a break so it would fit on the outside of the shell. This worked very well and there was very little grinding needed after the holes were cut.

Here is a picture one of the new handholes and the template we had made.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0010.jpg

Once we located the center of the handhole we used magnets to hold the template in place. It can be a little nerve racking to start burning holes in a new boiler shell.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0044.jpg

Here is Mike Wahl cutting holes in Jeff's new boiler shell.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0041.jpg

It's a good thing that Mike is young and limber. If I sat on my foot like that I wouldn't be able to stand up again until the next day.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0043.jpg

More latter.
Tom

[ICLIDA]

Here are some more pictures.

This is Mike Wahl and Pete Deets doing some final grinding on the steam dome pipe.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0053.jpg

Here is Jeff doing some final grinding on one of the tubesheetes. http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0066.jpg

Here is Mike sitting on his foot and fitting the tubesheet to the shell.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0068.jpg


Here is Jeff, Mike and Tom just before we loaded up to head home. Gerry Parker is taking this picture. Gerry took all of the pictures when we went to Mike's.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0067.jpg

Loading up.http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0070.jpg

Don't laugh at Mike's forklift. It's a very handy machine to have around and it runs great.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0075.jpg

We will be moving into the welding of the boiler next.

[ICLIDA]

Jeff's boiler was welded up at Deltak in Minneapolis. It was fitting that a Minneapolis engine get it's new boiler from a company in Minneapolis. I have worked at Deltak in a number of capacities since 1981 and have some connections that allow me to get a boiler welded up every now and then. When the Ortner locomotive needed a new boiler I was able to get it built in our shop.

Jeff's new boiler is built with a maximum allowable working pressure (MAWP) OF 175 psi. It carries an ASME "S" stamp and is registered with the National Board. By having Mike and I do all of the design work and drawings, including the ASME code calculations, along with us doing all of the prefabrication work we limited the work in the shop to welding, post weld heat treat, hydrotest and blast and paint. This helped keep the cost within reason. If you were to run a project like this through our engineering department the cost would more then double.

Here is a picture of the steam dome top. There are two 2" npt connections for the steam pipe. The steam comes out one of these pipes through the steam stop valve and then back into the boiler through a "dry pipe". There are two 1 1/2" npt connections for the safety valve(s). Two 3/4" connections for the steam whistle(s) and a blind tapped hole for the hook that holds up the water tank when it is flipped up for cleaning the combustion chamber. We did add one safety valve connection since we plan to run one "old style" valve and the required "V" stamped valve, and an additional 3/4" whistle connection just because Jeff wanted an extra connection. The top is 1 1/2" thick which is much thicker then the original boiler but it does not have the center support that the original design had.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120051-1.jpg

This is the inside view of the steam dome. You can see the pipe that will go down through the shell for the dry pipe. You can also see the 3/4" connection on the side of the dome which supplies steam to the injector. On all of the pipe connections into the shell we used 3000# half couplings set flush with the outside (except for the blow down connection) and full penatration welded and ground on the outside. These holes look like tapped holes but have the meat of a 3000# coupling.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120053.jpg

Here is a close up of one of the half couplings on the inside of the shell. Notice how much more material is in the connection instead of just tapping through the shell.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120054.jpg

This is a view of the connection on the outside after it was ground flush.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120056.jpg

This is the weld for the steam dome pipe to the steam dome top.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120052.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

This is the inside view of the steam dome. You can see the pipe that will go down through the shell for the dry pipe.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120053.jpg

Tom,

Can that dry pipe ever be replaced after the dome was welded on? How would you get to it? Looks like that piece is welded in place... what hooks up to it?

Mark Pedersen put a new dry pipe and elbow in his 40 Avery boiler, and it was a challenge to get it out, and back in again... Top of the dome is removable and the pipe came out the back hand hole in the boiler (4 X 6 hole). We now know why that hand hole is so big. Only way to get that pipe in there!

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
Sorry it has taken some time to get back to you but I just spent a week helping Jeff on his engine.

The dry pipe is not replaceable, or at least not easily. You can replace anything once you torch enough out of the way. We discussed this at length and we concluded that most of the dry pipes that are in our engines are almost 100 years old and as long as the boiler was stored in an upright position there is very little chance of any corrosion in the dry pipe. Jeff's boiler has a drain connection st the back head for the dry pipe and we also put a 1" slope in the dry pipe to assure it would drain. By going with welded connections inside the boiler we eliminated the possibility of any leaky threaded connections and the dry pipe was subjected to the ASME required 1.5 times hydro test (263 psi on this boiler), both internally and externally. The pipe is 2" sch 80 which has a wall thickness of .281. The elbow is a 2" sch 80 butt weld elbow ane the connection on the dome top and the rear head are 2" 3000# forged couplings that are full penatration welded through the the top and rear head and the threads were bored out on the inner end of the couplings to allow for a standard socket weled connection. The connection from the outside look just like a trheaded hole, but are really the end of the 3000# coupling.

I think with the drain, the sloped pipe, the welded connection and the sch 80 pipe we should be good to go for the next 100 years.

[GaarScott]

Tom,

Great photos and commentary. I've enjoyed the thread thus far and look forward to future updates. I'm sure I speak for many when I say thanks for starting this thread. Keep us posted!

Lawrence

[ICLIDA]

Here are some more of the welding pictures.

This is an inside view of where the combustion chamber (what most would think of as the smoke box on a direct flue boiler) is welded to the shell. The front tubesheet will sit between the 1 1/2" filler pipe connection and the weld between the shell and combustion chamber. The holes are for rivets that will be added later to make the boiler look original.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120058.jpg

Hre is a view of the outside of the shell, combustion chamber and the filler connection.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120057.jpg

This shows the fitup of the rear tubesheet to the shell. Note the dry pipe connection which looks like a threaded hole from the outside.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120067.jpg

This is a close up of the fitup weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120066.jpg

This is an inside view of the rear tubesheet.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120068.jpg

Outside view of the rear tubesheet.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC120065.jpg

[mrnewway]

This is a very interesting thread, and very informative to see how a boiler is constructed.
Jeff can be proud of his work and that of others on the restoration project, and it will be nice to see when it is completed.
I hope that post on the progress continues.
Thanks to all involved with this project.

Jim :):):)

[ICLIDA]

The tubesheets have a full bevel on the outside. There were a few weld passes between the tubesheet and the shell on the inside. After this the weld was backgouged with an air-arc from the outside, ground and magnatic partical tested for cracks. Here is a close up picture of the weld after grinding and testing.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC130072.jpg

Here is an "action shot" of the shell to tubesheet welding.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC130081.jpg

Another "action shot" from the other side.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC130083.jpg

This is the dry pipe to rear head connection before welding the pipe to the coupling.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC140078.jpg

Here is the dome to shell weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180107.jpg

Here is the dry pipe after is was welded in place. Note the drain holes for the dome and the big hole for steam to get to the top to exit to the stop valve before it goes down the dry pipe.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC140083.jpg

[ICLIDA]

After the tubesheets and the dry pipe were installed it was time for the through stays. The through stays are 7/8" diamerter and they are full penatration welded to the tubesheets.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC170091.jpg

Front tubesheet showing the through stay to tubesheet weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC170092.jpg

Close up of the finished through stay to tubesheet weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC170093.jpg

After installing the through stays it was time to install the fire tube. The fire tube is 24" diameter at the rear tubesheet and 22" diameter at the front tubesheet. It is actually an eccectric cone. It had to be made in two halves and welded together. Note the longitudinal welds at 3 and 9.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC170096.jpg

The fire tube sticks out the rear tubesheet about 5". Here is the fit up weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC170094.jpg

Inside view of the fire tube to rear tubesheet weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180105.jpg

Outside view of the fire tube to rear tubesheet weld.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180106.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Front tubesheet to fire tube weld after it was ground flush.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180095.jpg

Close up of tubesheet to firetube weld at the bottom.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180096.jpg

View of the inside of the boiler after the fire tube was installed.http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180098.jpg

Boiler after all welding was done. Note that the boiler was on 30 ton rollers. They were kind of overkill for the weight of this boiler, but they were the lightest ones we have in the shop.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180110.jpg

This is the furnace that is used for Post Weld Heat Treatment. It is approximently 16 ft wide, 20 ft high and 50 ft long. There are 2 burners at opposite corners of the furnace.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC130077.jpg

The boiler in the furnace with some other boilers that will be heat treated at the same time. Notice the thermocouple wires that moniter the temperature of the vessel as it is heated up to 1150 F. There is a heat chart that is made for every vessel that has a PWHT. Jeff has a copy of this heat chart with his boiler records.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC210117.jpg

After the PWHT the boiler went to Larson Welding in Fargo for rivet installation and tubing.

[ICLIDA]

Nhttp://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0001.jpg
Jeff sitting on top of his boiler with that "what have I gotten myself into" look. Notice that the boiler is up in the air on rollers high enough for the dome to clear the ground. The boiler is almost balanced with the fire tube being toward the bottom of the shell to offset the weight of the dome. You can almost roll the boiler on the roller by hand by lifting on the dome.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0004-1.jpg
Rivets being heated before installation into the holes.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0009.jpg
Heated rivet inserted into the hole.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0010-1.jpg
Rivet being held in place for the rivet squeezer to be positioned.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0047.jpg
Positioning squeezer over rivet.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0055.jpg
Close up.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0017.jpg
Even closer.

[ICLIDA]

Rivet under "pressure".
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0078.jpg

Rivet after cooling.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0058.jpg

There was 74 rivets installed that morning.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0129.jpg

This is the crew that installed the rivets that Saturday morning. We installed 74 rivets in 75 minutes once we got rolling.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0149.jpg

I need to give credit where credit is due. Gerry Parker took most of the pictures that have been shown in this thread so far. Thanks Gerry!

[M Kerkvliet]

Great pictures, and a great thread thus far Tom!

I am waiting (patiently) for some of them from last week to show up (work week @ Jeff's! I guess there are some from Jim's shop to go in first...

Keep 'em coming!

[Goat Boy]

Thanks Tom... For a Great Thread.... We got to see the outside of the Boiler at the Steam meeting a few weeks ago... And Now the inside with all the Details...:) It Doesn't get any Better than That ...:)

[M Kerkvliet]

Tom... why are the boilers heat treated?

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
The purpose of post weld heat tratment is to relieve residual stresses caused by welding. Take a look at the pictures below and you can see the areas that have had a tremenduos amount of heat input when the welds were made. By heating the whole vessel up eaqually and then allowing it to evenly cool, alot of the stesses that were put into the material are allowed to equalize. There are rules in the ASME Code Book that need to be followed based on the weld joint configuration, the thickness of the material, the type of material etc.

Note the heat effected area around the welds.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180106.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PC180105.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Goat Boy,
It does get a little better - in a few weeks we hope to have it steamed up!!!!!!!

I am headeing up to help Jeff this weekend. We are getting down to "crunch time" if we are going to have it running for the steam up on April 5.

[M Kerkvliet]

Mark,
The purpose of post weld heat tratment is to relieve residual stresses caused by welding.

So... in Jim's shop I watch the welders pre-heat castings and shafts, etc that they are going to weld, and then cool them very slowly after welding. In your case, did you pre-heat the area to be welded? (didn't look like it) and if not, is "baking" it afterward kind of accomplishing the same thing, but perhaps better?

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
All of the welds in the shop are pre-heated, but to different temperatures based on the material, and the temperature will be lower if the weld is going to be heat treated. In most cases on carbon steel material there will be a 200 degree F preheat applies.

On casings like you see in Jim's shop you need a much higher preheat to keep the material from cracking from the welding. Steel is more forgiving then cast iron so it can be welded, and then stress relieved. There are some special procedures that can be used when it is impractical to stress releive a weld, that involve more preheat, smaller weld passes, peening between passes etc. Those procedures are sometimes used during field repairs.

Either way, the intent is to reduce the amount of residual stresses in the material that are a result of welding.

Tom

[Jerry Christiansen]

Tom,

Are the welds a continuous weld with a wire feed welder? Or, are the welds 'stitched' the way I have seen welds made when a patch is welded in a boiler?

Thanks for the pictures and explainations!

Later,
Jerry Christiansen

[ICLIDA]

Jerry,
The welds are continuous whenever possible. Some care needs to be taken on smaller welds to control your interpass temperature, but on the larger welds they start the weld and run until it's done.

Tom

[Mike McKnight]

Impressive work, guys! I have seen the new boiler that was built for the smaller RF boiler Minnie sold at Joe's sale, and it's interesting to see the new boiler built for this one, too!

I have also seen the RF Minnie at Ken Eder's, and can tell you with the nice, ornate castings Minnie used at the time, the assembled engine looks like nothing short of a work of mechanical art. It'll be a BEAUT when she's done!

Look forward to seeing more pics then! :picture:

Mike

[ICLIDA]

I was up helping Jeff over the weekend so I am a little behind on my postings. I see we have some viewers from "down south" so I thought I would post a picture of Jeff's shop on a nice frosty morning "up north". I think it might have even been over 0 degree F that morning.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0018.jpg


Back to the boiler. On the weekend we worked on the riviting at Larson Welding in Fargo, we finished the riviting by 10:30 am on Saturday. We then moved onto the tube installation.

Here we are cutting the tubes to length.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0210.jpg

We used an air powered rolling motor that had adjustable torque control. Once you get it set you just roll the tubes until the motor stops. It's a great tool for rolling tubes. We used a straight roller to "set" the tubes and then a combination straight roller with a flair to start the bead.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/DSC_0180-1.jpg


Since the tubes don't aways cut exactlly straight we tried something new on this tubing job. We made up a spacer that was a snug fit over the tube and 3/16" long. We then used an angle grinder to bring the tubes down to the spacer. This way we had all of the tubes sticking exactlly 3/16" out from the tubesheet. We felt that this would help assure consistant beads all the way around all of the tubes. It didn't take very long and it sure was a time saver when it came to beading the tubes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0154.jpg

This is a close up of the ends of the tubes. You can see that some of them have been beaded and some have been rolled and flaired.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0242.jpg


Here is Jeff beading tubes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0226.jpg


Colt Edin beading tubes.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0252.jpg


At the end of the weekend we loaded the boiler up and it went back to Minneapolis for the official hydro test. This had to be witnessed by our Quality Control department and our third party inspector. We use Hartford Steam Boiler Insurance Company for our third party inspection. The boiler was hydro tested at 263 psi, which is 1 1/2 times the MAWP of 175 psi. The boiler was tight as a drum and held the pressure for 1/2 hour. After hydro the boiler was sandblasted with steel grit to a near white finish and painted with a 750 degree inorganic zinc rich primer. Then it was back to Fargo for engine and drive train installation.

More to come.

[ICLIDA]

The boiler made it's way back to Fargo the first weekend of Feb. It was on display at the Feb. meeting of the Minnesota Steam Engine Association (MSEA) meeting in Freeport, MN, and then was handed off for the trip north. The engine and driveline parts were just getting finished with any machining that was required, and were blasted and painted. It was time to fit everything together so holes could be located, drilled and tapped.

Here is the rear portion of the drivetrain waiting for the boiler.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Assembly64email.jpg

Here is the front axle assembly waiting for the boiler.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Assembly66email.jpg

Gerry Parker getting ready to set the boiler.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04214.jpg

The new boiler setting in place.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04181.jpg

A view from the back.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04168.jpg

A view from the front.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04176.jpg


Jeff under the watchful eye of the Larson Welding attack cat.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04185.jpg

More to come.

[Mike McKnight]

Love that casting work on the engine! Boiler looks nice, too. Guys, that's one to be proud of! :D
Mike

[ICLIDA]

Once the boiler was setting on the running gear it was time to set the engine in place. Kory Anderson was enlisted to assist in this step.

Here is Kory and Wimpy getting the engine into position.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04194.jpg

Another shot of Kory and Wimpy. Wimpy's good side?
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04190.jpg


Jeff and Kory discussing the location of the intermediate gear.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04184.jpg



Kory and Gerry Parker.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04196.jpg

Kory, Gerry and Jim Briden, with Jeff Edin supervising. Note the 3 ring binder full of pictures on the table. Before the old engine was removed, and during removal, everything was well documented with pictures to assist in the assembly.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04195.jpg

Note the creative use of come-a-longs, tie down straps, jack stands etc.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC04186.jpg


Once everything was in position all of the holes were marked and everytning was removed. The boiler was removed and approximently 60 holes were drilled and tapped into the boiler.

[Mike McKnight]

Good lookin work, guys! I have a question for you....how does the clutch work on this engine? :confused: I see some dogs on the bull pinion that makes me wonder if it slides in and out on the dogs, instead of a standard friction clutch?

If you've got Kory helping ya'll, I can tell you that's a good fellow to have! ;) He's helped me out quite a bit over the past year, building some parts for me on a couple of my projects.

Keep up the good work!

Mike

[ICLIDA]

Mike,
This engine has the standard friction clutch. According to Mr. Parker, he believes that all of the Minneapolis engiines went to a friction type clutch about 1894.

Tom

[M Kerkvliet]

I see some dogs on the bull pinion that makes me wonder if it slides in and out on the dogs,

You talking about these Mike?

I am curious what mates up here too... Tom? Is it just something to keep the next component on the shaft from slipping like a "key" would do? The bracket with the bolt on the right looks like it could line up with a shifting fork or something. Is it a 2 speed like an Avery maybe? Jim's Avery has a shifting method that uses "dogs" on two different gears like that for 2 speeds.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/mbkerk/Picture2-1.png

[Jerry Christiansen]

I am looking forward to seeing the firebox and smoke stack on this engine. I have not looked carefully at a return flue before, and I am having difficulty "seeing" the arrangement in my mind.

It looks like the top of the fire box will be directly under the smoke that returns in the smaller flues. Am I seeing that correctly? Or shall I just be patient and wait for the pictures that will come?

Later,
Jerry Christiansen

[Jeff Knutson]

The main pinion you see mates with the friction clutch assembly. The "dogs" match with similar dogs on the clutch assembly which essentially makes the unit behave as a siingle casting when assembled. Nothing fancy but a second casting slides back and forth over the dogs allowing the movement necessary for clutch engagement.

I have been watching this thread diligently and am amazed by the interest.

As a rebuild 2065 is a combination of Mpls.2065 and 3710. Both engines were obtained at the Rinda sale. 2065 was built as a 22 HP TC in 1899. 3710 appears to have started out as Mpls 1987 origionally built as an 18 HP single (1899). It returned to the factory in 1903 and was rebuilt as a 22 HP TC and as was customary renumbered to 3710. It was also rebuilt in 1908.

A number of changes from that engine have been incorporated into the rebuild of 2065 particularly the reach rod to the front axle.

Minneapolis made a large number of the RF engines. Of the 4345 RF engines only 192 were 22TC. To my knowlege this will be the only remaining 22 RF TC.

Thanks for your interest
Knut

[M Kerkvliet]

As a rebuild 2065 is a combination of Mpls.2065 and 3710. Both engines were obtained at the Rinda sale. 2065 was built as a 22 HP TC in 1899. 3710 appears to have started out as Mpls 1987 origionally built as an 18 HP single (1899). It returned to the factory in 1903 and was rebuilt as a 22 HP TC and as was customary renumbered to 3710. It was also rebuilt in 1908.



Thanks for the history Jeff. How in the world to you find all of that information? What is the finished engine going to be, i.e. 2065?

Threads like this provide an insight to how projects like this are done, that most will never be able to see or understand. Clayton's thread about his Russell is another example. Short of having a photo album and one of the principals standing right next to the engine explaining the rebuild, there is no better way to document a project of this magnitude to benefit as many people who have it available right here. It is also interactive, so folks can ask questions like Mike, Jerry, myself (and others) have done, or just give the people involved in the build a pat on the back! We all enjoy hearing positive comments on our work.


Great first post Jeff! Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future, and really looking forward to the MSEA Steam Up on April 5th!

[ICLIDA]

It's great to have Jeff on board.

After the holes were all drilled and tapped it was time to reassemble everything.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0896.jpg

Close up showing the new studs installed.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0893.jpg

The other side.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0886.jpg

After the boiler was back on it's wheels it was loaded up and moved from Larson Welding in Fargo to Jeff's shop.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0005.jpg

Here is Gerry at the controls as the engine is unloaded.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0014-1.jpg

[ICLIDA]

This last weekend the new water tank was assembled. The old water tank was measured up and drawings were made for all of the sheets that were needed. Peterson Mechanical in Fargo bent up all of the pieces a few weeks ago. Everthing was then brought up to Jackson Aircraft Service in Brainard for the riviting. Jim Jackson has many, many years of experience riviting on airplanes and a water tank was not a very big project for him. I had made a full sized layout of all of the rive holes so we just layed the print in place and used a center puch to locate all of the holes. Jim followed behind with the air drill to drill all of the holes. After all of the holes were drilled the tank was disassembled to remove any burrs that were left from the drilling. After that the sealent was installed in the joints and the riviting started. Jim and his son Zack, have run lots of rivets together. They work very well as a team and they installed all of the rivets in less then 2 hours.

Note the "Cleco Pins" that are used to hole the tank together before riviting.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110051.jpg



http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110052.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110053.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110056.jpg




http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110059.jpg

This was late Saturday in Jeff's shop. The new tank fit just perfect in the tank support.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110065.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110066.jpg

Thanks Jim and Zack.

[Mike Wahl]

Many of you are probably wondering how so much information is known about these Minneapolis steam engines. I could tell you that it is because we are really smart, however, anyone who knows us, knows that not it.

The truth is that Gerry Parker has a very extension collection of Minneapolis documentation. With the factories production records, several thousand drawings, sales literature, parts catalogs and photo’s it makes a project like this very interesting from the historical side.

During my search for some other Minneapolis data today, I ran upon some original drawings from Gerry that I had used in a presentation. I hope you enjoy them.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/1904LHsideRFcompound.jpg

These drawings are just beautiful, they were not only excellent drafters but they were also artists.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/1904RHsideRFcompoundcolor.jpg

[Mike Wahl]

Here is another original drawing showing the boiler and also a couple of shots of the new boiler design.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/1904RFboilersection.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/0001-3001-1.jpg

I can do an iso view, but have to work on the fire.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/0001-3001-2.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

Outstanding posts Mike! :congrats:You are right... the artwork is really beautiful. Please keep them coming!

I noticed in the drawing of the original boiler, there was some wild arrangement for grates and ash management. I have seen Jeff's boiler, and of course your drawings posted above, and it is quite a bit different. Was this by your design, or was this something Minneapolis came up with in later models? How will ashes be dealt with in the new boiler? Doesn't appear to be a lot of room if they are going to lay under the grates in the big flue.

I can't wait to see this engine fired!

[Jeff Knutson]

Gerry has and continues to provide exciting data about the Mpls line. The drawings and artwork give us a number of clues about these engines. Clearly identified is the tapered firetube on multiple drawings and pictures.
Marks confusion about the grates is clearly understandable because he has not seen the smokebox on the engine. This assembly actually straps around the boiler and in part consists of internal and external breeching sheets. Evidence of this is seen on the pictures of the area where one would expect to see the firedoor. Note the differing lengths of the Internal breeching sheet where the firedoor sticks further back on the straw burners. Also on this picture note the larger smokescreen on the straw burner.
The ash area is somewhat small and will require frequent attention. Mpls. must have identified this as a problem area in that the rivets for the rear tube sheet were flattened internally where one would need to scrape out the ashes. The front of the grates are supported by a bridgewall. This is a semicircular casting inserted down the firetube on which the grates hang. The rear of the grates are supported by the smokebox ring/door/ash assembly. The grates that came with the engine were rocking grates. We will use these initially but they will not work with the stoker coal we have available. Because this engine will be jacketed and if a straw shute can be found or fabricated straw may be a viable option. Over half of these engines were origionally straw burners. When completed Tom will post pictures of the jacketing but I do not expect this to be done until the weekend.

Knut

[defsim]

Knut,
Please check your "private messages" I sent you a message in regards to a straw chute.
Thanks.

[ICLIDA]

Love that casting work on the engine! Boiler looks nice, too. Guys, that's one to be proud of! :D
Mike

Mike mentioned the castings on this Minneapolis engine. This is the bracket for the platform. Minneapolis did have some great castings on their engines.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110064.jpg

[Jerry Christiansen]

Mike,

Thanks for the diagrams showing the grates and fire in post #43. I figured a lot of heat would be lost if the fire was in a box outside of the main tube.

Thanks to all for the pictures and explainations.

Later,
Jerry Christiansen

[ICLIDA]

When restoring a steam engine there are thousands of little details that need to be looked at. One of the greatest things about a project like this the the community effort that is put in. As you have seen up to now, Jeff has not done this all on his own. There are numerous individuals that have helped at all steps along the way.

Here is another example of the group effort on this project.

In July, Gerry Parker went over to Ray Wanglers place and they made a new piston rod for Jeff's engine. Here are some pictures from that weekend.

Ray, was it a little humid that day?
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/DSC_0001.jpg

Ray and his dad.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/DSC_0006.jpg

Ray getting very specific instructions from Gerry.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/DSC_0007.jpg

The new piston rod behind the original.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/DSC_0009.jpg

[Ray Wangler]

Tom, thanks for the acknowledgement! The amount of work I have into that RF pales by any comparison to you, Mike, Gerry, and Jeff. I did get to do the governor and help with the piston rod, which were both loads of fun (don’t mind the sweat, us full figured men sweat easily! (Lippy, no commentary needed!))

The piston rod for this tandem compound has a few unique qualities: Five different diameters, three threaded sections and one taper! One heck of a lot of machine work on that piece of 303 stainless. Gerry kept me from goofing it up and making Knut by a second shaft, I was really thankful for that.

Time, of course, doesn’t matter in a hobby, but I thought we did really well on the rod. Gerry showed up at my place at 3:00 on a Saturday afternoon and left with the finished rod about midnight, supper was taken. We ended up taking my press apart to get the old rod and pistons in it to remove the HP piston. The LP piston actually threads on to the rod which wasn’t intuitively obvious.

Keep the pictures coming of the progress, lots of people are interested!

Looking forward to steam up.

Ray

[ICLIDA]

Since we are looking at machining pictures, I will add some pictures of the machining that Gerry has done on this engine. The gearing on this engine was very good which leads us to believe that it didn't do much moving around, but the engine was pretty well worn out. This old engine must have done lots of belt work back in it's day. I think every moving part in the engine has been remachined and it should operate better then new once it's put back together.

Here are some pictures from Gerry's shop.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Turningwristpin.jpg



http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0052-1.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0051.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0053-1.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/TurningwristpinII.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Oldandnewwristpin.jpg

I believe these are pictures of the new wrist pin. Maybe with some encouragement we can get Gerry to add some comments on his work. If he doesn't the rest of us will, and we just make stuff up as we go!

[GaarScott]

Ray,

Great looking job on that shaft. Question though, can I assume that the high pressure piston has a pin or some other locking device to hold that pistion from simply turn its self off of the threads. I believe I see a hole in the high pressure piston for some kind of locking device.

Tom,

As for Gerry's machining capabilites....well, Jim Briden once told me that if you want a good machinest....hire a dentist!;)

Lawrence

[GaarScott]

Tom, Gerry, Jeff, Mike and others,

Once again, great looking job. I've enjoyed reading this thread as so many others have also. Another question though, and I re-read all of the posts to see if someone else had asked or if Tom had spoke of it. But didn't find any reference. I'm pretty sure what it is for....but would rather ask to make sure my assumptions are correct. The expanded metal that is wrapping the exterior of the boiler, is that for keeping the wood away from the surface and allowing for air to flow through and keep things dry? What provisions are being made for removing all of the lagging for future boiler inspections, as we all know here in Minnesota, you have to remove all jacketing for inspection purposes. Can you explain the strategy that will be used for preping the boiler for future inspections? Thanks.

Lawrence

[ICLIDA]

With reguard to the jacket, there are some options. Since this is a brand new "S" stamped, National Board registered boiler, it does not have to fall under the requirements for historical boilers, it can be inspected like any other power boiler. The disadvantage of treating it like a power boiler is that it will need to be inspected every year, which only ends up costing $30.00 more every 2 years.

The other option is that the jacket has been designed so the bottom will open up like a clam shell to allow for UT testing. The expanded metal was sized to assure that the UT probe would fit in the openings. On the bottom of the boiler there is a one foot area from the front to the back that will not be covered. This was left open to allow for UT testing and due to the fact that the lagging and jacket would not clear the counter shaft and the steering worm gear.

Per the new NBIC rules, which we don't know at this time how much Minnesota will be using, on your initial inspection the unstayed areas need to be UT tested on a 12 " grid. Since this is a new boiler we know what the thickness is. On recurring inspections, 10% of the original UT readings need to be checked to establish if any corrosion has occured. Since the boiler is approx 10' around by 8' long, 80 UT readings would be needed for the initial inspection and 8 readings on recurring inspections. Since the bottom has been left open the UT readings can be taken in the unjacketed area to comply with this requirement. If that is not enough to satisfy the inspector, the bottom can be opened up by removing about 20 screws and the jacket and the wood folds out of the way.

This has been discussed at great length with both the local inspector and the Chief inspector. One of the concerns was having the wood in direct contact with the shell which could encourage corrosion. This is why the boiler was balsted per SSPC-SP-10 (Near white) and painted with a high quality high temperature paint. The expanded metal was also blasted and painted.

As you can see we didn't go into this without a lot of planning and discusion with the inspection department.

Here is a picture of the bottom of the boiler.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110063.jpg

[Jeff Knutson]

As Tom has explained a great deal of thought went into the design of the jacket. While the concept is not without flaw I can assure you that the "clamshell" works. Last night I found a relatively irritating oversight on my part. The gearshild for the right bullgear is supported by a bracket bolted to the rear axle pedistal. The square nuts for the bolts fit in a recess on the back of that casting. I was able to open and again close the wood jacket to reach these recessed areas for inserting of the nuts. It appears that the exposure will be adequate for the UT probe when this is required based on this experience.
I do not think that this jacket is applicable to other historic boilers. Two witnessed hydro tests have been performed prior to placing the jacket. we have been careful to try avoid loosening any nipples which will be beneath the jacket and as Tom stated the thickness of this boiler is known. At some time the jurisdiction will want to see the boiler proper. This is part of their job and at their discretion. We have spent a considerable amount of thought and effort on disassembly to make this as easy as possible in the future. Most of this will never be seen but I do hope future generations will appreciate this as inspections become more frequent with increasing age of the boiler.
Knut

[ICLIDA]

Here are some pictures of Gerry's machine work on the eccentric.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0049.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0043-1.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0038.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0039.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0050-1.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0046.jpg

[ICLIDA]

You talking about these Mike?

I am curious what mates up here too... Tom? Is it just something to keep the next component on the shaft from slipping like a "key" would do? The bracket with the bolt on the right looks like it could line up with a shifting fork or something. Is it a 2 speed like an Avery maybe? Jim's Avery has a shifting method that uses "dogs" on two different gears like that for 2 speeds.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/mbkerk/Picture2-1.png


Mark,
Gerry sent me some pictures of some of the machining he did at Larson Welding on Jeff's engine. Look at the follwing picture and you can see the "dogs" that engage with the "dogs" on the pinion gear.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/ClutcharmbeingmachinedatLarsonWeldi.jpg

[GaarScott]

Tom, Jeff, and others,

I knew that some of the best minds have been involved in this project, that is why I asked the question, I wanted to learn from you all. Thank you for your explanation.

Lawrence

[ICLIDA]

Here are some pictures of getting the wood onto the boiler.

Mike brought Jeff some rough cut ash from Wisconsin last fall at showtime. It was stacked up and was drying since that time. All of the pieces were ran through the table saw to make them 2" wide. Then they were ran over the jointer to bring them down to 3/4" thick, and a 3 degree bevel was put on the sides.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0152.jpg

View from up top. Note how the pipe holes were put in with a hole saw. Way too fancy since it all gets covered up anyway, but we had fun.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0150.jpg

Another top view.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0151.jpg

Right side view.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0908.jpg

Left side view. Note the wood on the dome.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0910.jpg

Cut out around the handhole
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/handholecutout.jpg

Lots of cutting and fitting around brackets.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0912.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

...and a 3 degree bevel was put on the sides.

Just out of curiosity Tom... how did you come up with the 3° number?

The detail you guys are going to amazes me! Very nice job!

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
The angle should have been 2.727272728 degrees but Jeff doesn't have the digital readout on his jointer.

By taking the diameter of the shell plus 2 times the thickness of the expanded metal, times PI, you can get the circumferance on the outside of the expanded metal. Divide by 2 (the width of each board). This gives you the number of boards required. Take 360 divided by the number of boards required will give the the included angle and divide that by 2 to get the angle to be put on each board.

Tom

[M Kerkvliet]

Mark,
The angle should have been 2.727272728 degrees but Jeff doesn't have the digital readout on his jointer.


:biglaugh:

I assumed he would have bought a jointer up to the task! They must have one with a read out that goes out 9 places from the decimal! :rof:

Equations like this fascinate me. A friend and I once calculated the speed of the tip of a windmill blade (big power company windmills) while I was going down the road in my semi. We were talking about it on the phone. He was watching one and said it was really flying, and he counted the RPM, and that lead to the question of the speed. I can't remember all of the numbers now, but it was a lot faster than either of us thought. I think it took me ½ hour to figure it out, but it sure makes the miles fly by when you have something to think about besides staying between the lines! I know someone who actually paid attention in math class could have figured it out in 3 minutes!:bonk:

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
This is how many of the details have been worked out on Jeff's engine. When needed, we pulled out the old laptop and did layout drawings as needed. It' kind of new technology meets old engines.
Tom

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0125.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Here are the cross head shoes being machined by Gerry at Larson Welding. Note how far out of round they are.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/CrossheadshoesbeingmachinedatLarson.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Here is a close up of one of the pipe connections through the wood.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Closeupofwoodenjacketworkmanship.jpg

Here is one of the hand hole openings.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/handholecutout.jpg

Here is the hand hole opening with it's trim ring.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110060.jpg

[ICLIDA]

I scanned some of the drawings that I got from Gerry Parker. I hope they show up OK.

This first one is a nice isometric drawing of a 27 HP Tandum Compound. The 27 is the next size bigger engine then Jeff's 22. The details in these drawings are incredible. We have gone back to these drawings for referencing such things as pipe routing, union locations, lagging details etc.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/scan0007.jpg

Here is a 18 HP simple engine. This is the size engine that Minneapolis put the compound engine on to make it a 22 like Jeff's. Note the removable covers on the rear of the engine to allow for flue cleaning. This is also a coal or wood burning engine, not a straw burner, as there isn't the extended straw shoot off from the rear of the engine, just a firebox door.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/scan0004.jpg

Here is a tandum compound straw burner. Note the extended straw shoot.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/0003.jpg

This is a rear view of a 22 simple straw burner. This is one size bigger then Jeff's. You can tell it's bigger by the extra little removable cover on the rear head just above the firetube. This engine also has the adjustable exhaust nozzle. You can see the lever on the rear head for adjusting the exhaust nozzle. One of Jeff's engines had a fixed nozzle and one had an adjustable. He is going to be installing the adjustable nozzle on the restored engine.

Also note the large amount of ground clearance there is under a return flue engine as compaired to a direct flue engine.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/scan0006.jpg

If these scans turn out OK maybe I can get some more from Gerry to post. What I should get are some of the original drawings that Gerry purchased at the Rynda sale. Jeff got 2 engines and Gerry got the drawings at the sale. For those that don't know, Gerry purchased many rolls of the original drawings from the Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company at the Rynda sale. He has taken digital pictures of all of the drawings and is now in the process of putting together a huge data base of all of the factory records and the drawings. Some of the drawings that he got are going to make some of the future Minneapolis projects possible.

On a side note, since Gerry got the drawings we have detremined that the 45 Minneapolis at Rollag has the wrong reverse quadrant installed. The correct one has almost 2 more inches of throw then what is currently on the engine. Plans are under way to get a correct one made. The 45 has never ran correct and with the factory drawings we are now able to verify information that we never, ever would have found.

[Ray Wangler]

Tom, great posts and great thread!!! Nice job. You're able to differentiate between the 27 and 22 tandem compound, and the 22 and 18 simple. Are there engine traits that are giving that away, or is it simply the renditions are labeled and that didn't come across in the scan?

Thanks
Ray

[GaarScott]

Ray,

Could you refer to my post #52. I was just wondering how the low pressure pistion is being secured to the threaded section of the pistion rod. It appears in the photo that there is a hole in the pistion for possibly a pin or other such fastener to keep the pistion from reversing itself off of the threads. Thanks.

Lawrence

[Ray Wangler]

Lawrence, I did notice your question in post 52 and it is a very good one. Unfortunately, you’ll have to refer to the date on the pictures, 6/07……….in other words, my short memory is only superseded by my inability to understand details in the first place!! I believe there was a bolt drilled half way into the HP cylinder lock nut and half way into the shaft to hold the nut from spinning off. It also seems there was a tapered pin used the same way to hold the LP piston from spinning off the shaft, but, again, that was quite a while ago, especially for someone that has trouble remembering the drive to work this morning! Good question and I wouldn’t swear by my answer, but that’s what I remember.

Thanks
Ray

[GaarScott]

Thanks Ray, your explanation sounds reasonable and what I had figured. But just wanted to make sure. So....typically one would center the piston between the two ends of the cylinder....but with pre-drilling a hole and driving in a tapered pin....well, I don't see how one could center the piston in the cylinder after assembly.....but then takes extreme care in measuring....well, it is probably close enough for those days.:bump:

Lawrence

[ICLIDA]

Tom, great posts and great thread!!! Nice job. You're able to differentiate between the 27 and 22 tandem compound, and the 22 and 18 simple. Are there engine traits that are giving that away, or is it simply the renditions are labeled and that didn't come across in the scan?

Thanks
Ray

Ray,
I would like to say I am just that good, but those of you that know me, know better then that. We have spent a lot of time the last 2 years looking at all of the details on these engines and some things do set them apart.

On the first picture it is easy to see that it is a compound, and it has XVII cast into the cylinder cover. Minneapolis did this up until, I believe the year 1916.

The second picture is clearly a single engine and I know it can't be larger then an 18 as the next size engine has more tubes and has the extra little cleanout cover above the firetube. It is possible that this picture is of an engine smaller then the 18 and I may have posted incorrectly.

The next picture was again a compound and I didn't state a size.

The Last picture is a simple by looking at the cylinder head, and it has to be the larger boiler with the small third removable cover. There are some, or most of the parts, available for a 22 single return flue. Maybe it too will be assembled someday.

Gerry has put together a very nice reference book on Minneapolis return flue engines that Jeff keeps in the library in his shop. I had a few opportunities to study this reference material when I spent a week helping Jeff.

Tom

[ICLIDA]

This is the original boiler with the original wood and steel jacket.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/DSC_0291-1.jpg

Here is the wood on the new boiler. It was a real challange putting the 45 degree bevel on the top pieces.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/TopofRFwithwoodjacketapplied.jpg

Another view of the top of the dome.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PA270039.jpg

I'm not sure if this is the correct way to put a bevel on the outside of a circle, but it sure worked good.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0913-1.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Pictures of installation of the dome jacket. Peterson Mechanical made this piece and it fit very close with virtually no trimming required.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/100_0697.jpg

Just a little fine tuning with the fine tuning instrument.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/100_0696.jpg

Jeff and Tom getting detailed instructions from Jerry Asher.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/100_0699.jpg

Jeff isn't usually this far up from the ground. Wait until we get the "throne" for him on one of the upcoming projects.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/100_0694.jpg

[ICLIDA]

After the dome jacket was in place it was time for the shell jacket. To get a good layout to go by we used heavy cardboard and pieced it together to fit around everything.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120069-1.jpg

Some of the finer details were cut out seperate and then positioned after the main sheets were in place
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120070-1.jpg

The cardboard sheet was about 5' x 12' when it was laid out. It was marked and a jigsaw was used for cutting it.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120071-1.jpg

After going on and off about 10 times to keep fine tuning the fit, it was straped in place.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120076.jpg

Close up of some of the fit up.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120077.jpg

The fit around the handhole trim piece was especially nice. Just a little grinding and it was done.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120078.jpg

[Mike Wahl]

This project has been very educational for all of us. We had discussed the Minneapolis return flues, but never really studied them a lot. On the surface they look very simple, but there is a lot of close clearances in areas that do not allow a lot of room for changes from the original design.

The original statement that Tom and I said when we began design this boiler was “it’s only a barrel, couple of tube sheets, a fire tube and the dome; how difficult can that be.” Famous last words. After we sent time measuring, studying, designing and discussing, lots of discussing (most of it not worth much, but lots of discussions) we found that there were a lot of unique things on these engines.

The first being the limited amount of room for cleaning tubes. It took several different tube layouts to make the compliant to code and allow them to be cleaned.

This is an original drawing showing the smokebox cover for the collection of Gerry Parker once again. There are covers on each side that go over the hole in the casting. They slide up for removal when the tubes need to be cleaned.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/Return_flue_smoke_box_cover.jpg

This is a screen shot of the new design showing the cover and boiler. The blue item represents the smokebox cover. As you can see there is not a lot of room for an oops in this area.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/0001-3001.jpg


There are several other unique items on this engine, I will post more as I have some time and get the info. Tom is by Jeff as I type and will be getting a few pictures so I can show some of the other unique items on this engine.

[ICLIDA]

This is a screen shot of the new design showing the cover and boiler. The blue item represents the smokebox cover. As you can see there is not a lot of room for an oops in this area.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/The_Steam_Shop/0001-3001.jpg


There are several other unique items on this engine, I will post more as I have some time and get the info. Tom is by Jeff as I type and will be getting a few pictures so I can show some of the other unique items on this engine.


Mike is right that this was much more challanging then we first thought. It has been a very educational project and we have learned a lot for future projects. One intersting thing is that the tubes in this return flue boiler slope down towards the front of the boiler. Take a look at the picture and you can see how the tubes slope down and in towards the center. On direct flue boilers the tubes slope towards the rear of the boiler.

[ICLIDA]

After all of the wood pieces were cut and fit they were numbered, removed and layed out for installation at a later date.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0916.jpg

Here is the trim piece that goes on the font of the boiler. It has been crimped to fit the outside of the shell and has a bead rolled into it just like the original jacket.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120074-1.jpg

Here is a close up of the trim piece on the front of the jacket.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB120073-1.jpg

Here the trim piece has been screwed into place and the combustion chamber painted. With the jacket, rivets and lap seam all in place it is really looking sharp.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0931.jpg

The last large piece has been installed and all that is left is the trim piece at the rear, the dome top, and the straps. Check out the neat handhole cover on the top.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0939.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Last weekend we started making up the breaching for the back of the boiler. Having the original drawings has been a huge time saver in this area. There are a few areas where we have taken some liberties from the original design, but it is very close to original. Here is a copy of the original drawing for the breaching.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Breechingsheet.jpg

Here is one of the breaching pieces where the stack mounts. The hole for the stack will be cut flush once the stack base is bolted in place.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0936.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Here are some drawings from the Parker collection. If you zoom in you will see that this is engine number 103. Minneapolis started with either 100 or 101 so this must be a drawing from the very first engines.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/RFleftsideengine.jpg




http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/RightsideRFengine.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Inside of the steam chest on a Woolf Compound engine.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PA270042.jpg

Jim Biden installing the new piston rings on the low pressure piston.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/JimfittingringsontoLPpistonemail.jpg

Jim lining up the rings and piston in the cylinder.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/JimBrideninsertingLPpistonemail.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Jimcompressingtheringsemail.jpg

Jim and Jeff installing the low pressure piston.

Why is the tall guy on the ladder and the short guy on the ground?
Why are we using the ladder I thought we all agreed to cut up?
Is Jeff actually on this toes?
Is this an OSHA approved method, or is Jeff just showing off?
So many questions, so few answers!
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/JeffandJiminsertinglowpressurepisto.jpg

[ICLIDA]

After many, mnay years, Jeff finally has his blast cabinet up and running.

Nice stand!
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Jeffstandingbysandblasteremail.jpg

Gerry installing shims for the main bearings.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Gerryshimmingmainbearingemail.jpg


The shop supervisors. Their lifes have been very disrupted for the last few months, but I think are are starting to take a great interest in this project from the intent look on their faces.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Supervisoryfelineforepersons.jpg

[40avery]

I can see the interest in gray tabbies face but orange tabby just wants everyone OUT of his space!!:biglaugh:

[M Kerkvliet]

I can see the interest in gray tabbies face but orange tabby just wants everyone OUT of his space!!:biglaugh:

:bump:

The night I was out there, the orange cat wanted to attack me! I didn't dare turn my back, and I made sure there was plenty of daylight between me and the door!

What have you guys been up to? Tom?? Jeff??? Been a couple of months since we had any updates here! Any chance of showing at steam school?

[ICLIDA]

As you know by now we didn't make steam school. We were close but someone (Mike) killed Jeff's table saw cutting the oak boards for the platform. If we would have had a new saw and about 2 more days we could have brought the engine out to the hill.

There is not too much left and we hope to have the first steam up not to long from now. We have a few work weekends planned for this summer and we will have the engine ready for the show.

Here is a picture of the high pressure cylinder and piston.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Highpressurecylinderinstalledshowin.jpg

The parts pile is getting smaller so we must be getting close!
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/BitsandpiecesontopofworkbenchatKnut.jpg

Here is the right side of the engine with the flywheel installed.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/46inchflywheelinstalledon22TCRF-1.jpg


The original rocker grates.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/RockerGratesin22HPreturnflueemail.jpg
My wife suggested that it would be in Jeff's best interest to keep a couple of engineers, who sometimes pretend to be firemen, far away from these grates, especially if they are going to fire with coal. I have no knowledge of what she is talking about.

[edin]

Tom,

Are the rocker grates more for big lump coal than the smaller stuff that we have at the show?

I hope to see you out there in a few weeks!

Have a good one,

Colt

[ICLIDA]

Colt,
I don't think I would recommend using the coal we have with these grates as most of the fire would be on the firetube below the grates. I think that Jeff is planning on using slab wood, at least for this year, and maybe some rosebud grates will be installed in the future.

These grates are in very good shape for being 109 years old. It took about one day of grinding to get everything to fit and for the grates to
rock.

Here is a picture from an old Minneapolis poster that shows what the platform will look like.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P1180355.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Tom,

Are the rocker grates more for big lump coal than the smaller stuff that we have at the show?

I hope to see you out there in a few weeks!

Have a good one,

Colt


Colt,
Here is another picture of the rocker grates.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0967.jpg

[ICLIDA]

As you know by now we didn't make steam school. We were close but someone (Mike) killed Jeff's table saw cutting the oak boards for the platform. If we would have had a new saw and about 2 more days we could have brought the engine out to the hill.

There is not too much left and we hope to have the first steam up not to long from now. We have a few work weekends planned for this summer and we will have the engine ready for the show.

Here is a picture of the high pressure cylinder and piston.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/Highpressurecylinderinstalledshowin.jpg

The parts pile is getting smaller so we must be getting close!
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/BitsandpiecesontopofworkbenchatKnut.jpg

Here is the right side of the engine with the flywheel installed.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/46inchflywheelinstalledon22TCRF-1.jpg


The original rocker grates.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/RockerGratesin22HPreturnflueemail.jpg
My wife suggested that it would be in Jeff's best interest to keep a couple of engineers, who sometimes pretend to be firemen, far away from these grates, especially if they are going to fire with coal. I have no knowledge of what she is talking about.


Jeff has replaced his table saw that someone (Mike) killed and we now have the platform built.

Jeff's new table saw.http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0991.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Colt,
I don't think I would recommend using the coal we have with these grates as most of the fire would be on the firetube below the grates. I think that Jeff is planning on using slab wood, at least for this year, and maybe some rosebud grates will be installed in the future.

These grates are in very good shape for being 109 years old. It took about one day of grinding to get everything to fit and for the grates to
rock.

Here is a picture from an old Minneapolis poster that shows what the platform will look like.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P1180355.jpg


The new platform.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0998.jpg

[Darren Gunderson]

Wow, the platform looks great. Looks like it is getting closer to that exciting time of first fire.

Darren

[ICLIDA]

Clayton has his wife to help him with his Russell, and Jeff went the "child labor" route. Here is Cassandra Dillon helping do some touch up painting on the bottom. http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0985.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Picture of the water tank mounting bracket.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0977.jpg


The new water tank sitting in the mounting bracket.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1015.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

Good to see you all making progress Tom... and to see new activity in this thread!

Keep the pictures coming!

[ICLIDA]

Some of Jeff's handy work putting an offset in one of the pipes.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0974.jpg


Completed pipe offset.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1025.jpg

[ICLIDA]

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1024.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1023.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Picture of a 27 HP Return Flue Tandem Compound.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/scan0007.jpg


Picture of the 22 from approximately the same angle.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1022.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Injector piping.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0975.jpg

After painting. Notice the wonderful cylinder cover castings.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1029.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

What is the extra water valve and pipe nipple on the back side of the injector for Tom? Also, I was going to ask how Jeff bent that pipe "S"?

[Ray Wangler]

Mark, the valve with the open nipple is to take water from an external source, the angle valve below it is water from the front tank. If you work with Jeff long enough, you'll learn he likes lots of options with the plumbing! It's a lot more piping, but when he's done, it sure makes the operation smooth.

Ray

[ICLIDA]

Mark/Ray,
Jeff is planning on using his Minneapolis water wagon behind this engine since his water tank on the engine isn't real large. Last year during the show we used his water wagon behind our Advance and the extra water capacity is real nice to have with you.

We are getting very close to first steam up. Lots of little details left, but Jeff just told me that he has all of the remaining parts on one workbench just waiting to be installed.

Tom

[ICLIDA]

Ray,
Do you know if the crosshead pump can be used to pump water out of the water wagon, or is it just the injector that can be used?

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1019.jpg

[ICLIDA]

If you leave the camera on the floor Jeff's cats get real curious and this is what you end up with.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1011.jpg

[Ray Wangler]

Tom, I think you would have to draft the wagon into the tank and use the x-head pump from there.

Those ornery cats take a heck of a picture!

We'll be working at the farm all weekend, hope to get that table of parts on the engine plus a little separator work.

Later

Ray

[ICLIDA]

Step pictures at various stages

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PB110064.jpg


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_0996.jpg

[ICLIDA]

This engine has a dry pipe which I showed pictures of many posts back. Here is a picture that shows how the steam leaves the steam dome, goes through the main stop valve and back down into the dry pipe.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/PA270039.jpg

This shows how the piping connects to the dry pipe at the rear tubesheet and goes up to the throttle valve. There is a tee that goes out the rear of the boiler that has a drain valve. The pipe goes out through the side of the smoke stack base. The stack base is 2 halves that bolt together.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1002.jpg

After the throttle valve there is and elbow and a nipple before the governor. There is very little steam piping between the boiler and the engine. At the bottom of this picture you can see the 3/8" pipe connection for the blower. You can also see the hole in the stack base where the blower pipe will go into the stack.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1005.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Here is Jeff checking to see if the step on the platform will be adequate for some of the vertically challenged operators.

This weekend there will be a group going out to Jeff's to try to clear off the workbench of any remaining parts that go on the engine. We are very close to first fire.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1000-1.jpg

[ICLIDA]

One of the two engines that Jeff bought at the Rynda sale had a variable exhaust nozzle. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference this makes when firing.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1034.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Here is a view of the interceptor valve which allows you to inject high pressure steam into the low pressure cylinder. The valve is a very nice looking brass valve with a very unique shape.

One the right side there is some 1/4" piping that comes out of the elbow just after the throttle valve. It wraps around and goes into the cylinder casting. This puts high pressure steam on the back side of a "puck" that is used to keep the slide valve against the valve surface.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1037.jpg

[ICLIDA]

On Sunday July 27, 2008, Jeff pulled the throttle on his engine and it came to life for the first time in probably 60 years or more. We had about 100 psi air pressure in the boiler, so we still can't claim to have had the first fire. If you look close you will see we still need to install the stack. After all of the work to this point it was very nice to see that the engine runs, and in both directions.

Can't wait for first steam up and then the big entry to "the hill".

Enjoy the short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2otgJ_XMjPU

[M Kerkvliet]

:woohoo1:

Outstanding! It must feel great to see and hear it run after all the work you guys have put into it!

Congratulations all the way around!

[ICLIDA]

Here is the water column with the gauge glass and try cocks. The pressure gauge goes on the connection on the top that has a plug in it. Jeff has a very nice original Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company gauge which will be calibrated before installation.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1040.jpg (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1040.jpg)

[Buckwheat]

One of the two engines that Jeff bought at the Rynda sale had a variable exhaust nozzle. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference this makes when firing.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/IMG_1034.jpg
How does the variable exhaust nozzel work? I can't seem to figure it out from the picture.

Martin

[Jeff Knutson]

The nozze as you see in the picture has two threaded rods. The lower is simply an anchor point with the nozzle being affixed to the rear of the engine. The second rod connects to the moving portion of the nozzle hence the cotter pin. Imagine the nozzle as two inverted cones with a portion cut out of each wall. What you see is the fully open position. As the valve is closed the "flap" attached to the rod is pushed into the gap of the inner cone . This forces all of the steam through the inner cone and increases the velocity and unfortunately the back pressure in the engine. As the flap is withdrawn the outer cone gets more of the steam and the velocity is decreased.
I have never seen such a valve before so I have no idea if it was workabe but I do not believe it was an option on latter engines which used fixed nozzles of different sizes.

Thanks for the interest
Knut

[ICLIDA]

On Saturday Aug. 9, 2008 we pulled Jeff's Minneapolis out of the shop for the first fire up.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090222.jpg

[ICLIDA]

Setting a stack in place.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090223.jpg

Jeff thought we should be a little farther away from the shop before we built a fire. I guess Jeff has some experience with wood threshing machines and fire. My only experiece has to do with pulling a trailer up Sherman Hill in Montana and burning a Chevy Suburban to the ground. Maybe the extra distance was a good idea.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090228.jpg


About a half an inch of water in the gauge glass.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090237.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

About a half an inch of water in the gauge glass...



And???

Come on!!! :picture: MORE pictures!

Did you get a fire in it?

You know what the rest of us were doing on Saturday? Re-shingling the Admin building!

I'll trade places with you!

[ICLIDA]

Mark,
We did talk about the shingling going on at the hill and wondered if we should feel guilty about working on the engine instead of shingling. We concluded that as difficult as it may be, we could live the the tremendous guilt of not being there to help shingle. Actually, Gerry Parker said something about being retired and not wanting to have to learn a new trade at this point in his life.

I think when I left you hanging, we had about a half an inch of water.

Here we are 3/4 full and ready for some fire.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090253.jpg

The try cocks on this engine are really neat as they have a bottom outlet. Note the water running out of the top try cock.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090255.jpg


Jeff getting ready to use the "big match" to get the fire going.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090244.jpg

Warming up. It takes a long time for the stack to warm up enough to get any draft on this return flue. There was smoke coming out of every opening except for the stack for a long time.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090262.jpg

We finally got some draft and the smoke started to clear up. You can still see some at the front end.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090267.jpg

[M Kerkvliet]

You know what the rest of us were doing on Saturday? Re-shingling the Admin building!



I was reminded earlier that there were a lot of other jobs being done on the grounds as well... some equally as hateful as shingling!

There is nowhere near enough sweat on you guys! Not even any soot! You are way too clean! I sure hope there is some grease and soot, and maybe even a little sweat that shows up in some of these pictures soon! If so... you can knock the guilty conscience down ½ a notch!

The engine looks great guys! Outstanding work... congratulations!

[ICLIDA]

There is a small door in the front of the boiler where you can look back into the firetube.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090276.jpg (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090276.jpg)

Here is a picture of the fire as seen through the small door.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090275.jpg

The firetube is about 8 feet long and the grates are about 4 feet long. There is a support for the front of the grates that blocks off the bottom portion of the firetube. One thing we need to learn is how hard we can push in the wood. Some of it falls over the front of the grates as seen in this picture.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090285.jpg

[ICLIDA]

As we were warming up there was a lot of condensation in the firetube as seen in this picture.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090275.jpg

There was a lot of condensation running out of the front of the boiler and dripping down to the ground. Look at the size of the puddle on the ground.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090286.jpg

I don't think the condensation was any more then a direct flue engine, but is was interesting to be able to watch it through the small front door.

Note the stack in the picture above. We were getting some real good draft at this point. It was also getting close to sunset.

[40avery]

Jeff and Crew,

You should be so proud of the job you have all done. The first fire is an exciting thing. You have a unique engine that will be great for discussions from our visitors. Congratulations!!

Rick

[ICLIDA]

After the sun had set we got off the peg.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090299.jpg

When we got to about 50 psi we checked the injector and the crosshead pump. They both worked and we were able to locate all of the loose connections between the pump and the check valve. Good thing it was Saturday night as we both needed our bath anyway. Then we started to warm up the cylinders.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090292.jpg

Another shot with less steam.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090293-1.jpg

After the cylinders were warmed up we turned it over on steam for the first time. It was a very rewarding moment after all the work that has gone into this restoration. Notice the moon just over Jeff's right shoulder. Isn't there an old song about under the light of the silvery moon.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P8090296.jpg

We did try the adjustable exhaust nozzle when the engine was running and you could hear the change in the exhaust as it was adjusted. We won't really know if it makes any difference until we can get a load on the engine and see how it reacts.

There are still some odds and ends to finish up before the show but most of us that have been involved in this restoration will be heading up to Rollag a week early. As soon as we set the campers it's off to Jeff's shop to finish up the last few details and get some hours on the engine before it goes out to the hill.

I understand this engine has a threshing engagement in eastern Minnesota later in September. Jeff, or someone else, may want to expand on that.

Next winter there are plans to add the canopy complete with the original scalloped fringe trimming.

[Darren Gunderson]

Wow, Looks great. I bet that is a great feeling to have it go under its own steam power. I look forward to seeing it run in person in a couple weeks. Counting the days until showtime:thumb:

Darren

[Colin]

Hey- looks good. :thumb:
Im sure its been posted earlier but i forget... what is the HP of this engine. and how many were made as compounds, & how many still exist?
what Psi are you going to carry on it.
the big 45 CP has always intrigued me, cant wait to see the next 45 be built. :)

[ICLIDA]

Colin,
This is a 1899 22 HP Single Tandem Compound. It has a 7x10x11 engine and was built on the same boiler that had the 18 HP single (8 1/4x11). Jeff and Gerry have the records of how many were made as compounds. Jeff bought 2 engines and the Rynda sale and were both 22 compounds. One of the engines, #2065 started life as a compound, but the other engine #1987 started as a 18 HP single and was rebuilt at the factory in 1903 as a 22 tandem compound and resold as #3710. Both #1987 and #2065 were built in 1899. As far as we know these are the only remaining Minneapolis return flue tandem compound engines left.

The new ASME boiler has a MAWP of 175 psi, but we are going to install a 150 psi safety valve.

As you know I have ran the 45 hp single tandem compound engine at Rollag ever since it was restored in 1987. Jeff's return flue tandem compound has a lot of the same characteristics as the 45 with it's 10 1/4x15x12 engine. It will be fun to see how this compound reacts when we get up around 150 psi on it. The most we have ever run on the 45 is 112 psi and it's a little wet to say the least. Hopefully the 45 will be getting a new boiler in the not too distant future.

If I remember correctly, the peak year for engine production for Minneapolis was in 1904, just 5 years after Jeff's engine was built. We sometimes forget that these older engines did a tremendous amount of work and deserve a special place in agricultural history. We are hoping that this engine along with a wood threshing machine are a good representation of a turn of the century threshing outfit.

As for the 45 double tandem compound (7 1/2x11x10), that restoration will take some time. The 35 single (12x12) will be done first. The 35 single, 45 single tandem compound and the 45 double tandem compound all share the same boiler, with some slight differences. We are getting ahead of ourselves, we need to finish the 22 first.

Tom

[Colin]

Hi, thanks for the reply. i guess i got so into reading the updates and watching the pictures load i didn't see the HP in the thread title
:o
Ive looked over the 35/45 stuff a bit, they will be quite the projects. sure nice that stuff got saved.
Also would be good to see the old Pross 45 get a new boiler! and be able to carry some more Psi. :thumb:

[Ray Wangler]

Colin and Tom: I posted this on Smokstak a while back, it concurs with Tom's information above with a few more pieces of production data. See ya fellows at the show in two weeks!!!

Ray

Finally, the RF discussion:

"Not a whole lot to tell on these two, at least from the production record angle.

2065 was manufactured as a 22 HP TC in 1899. By that time they were going to a heavier crank pin! Before 1898 they had used a 1 3/4" crank pin but then went to a 2 1/4" which is what both your (Jeff's) engines have. And both engines have a crankpin length of also 2 1/4" sticking out of the crankdisc.

3710 was dated from 1903 and simply states that it was "changed from 18 HP." There is no reference to what the number was when it was an 18? However, by looking at all the other return flue records there is only one, #1987, an 18 built in 1899 that was compounded in 1903 (also "rebuilt 1908") and I think that is our baby. So these two engines are from the same year (1899) originally and I would assume knew one another at the factory?

I also noticed that 4 return flue engines were equipped with 4" extensions and one, a 27HP compnd had 30" wide drivers. A LOT of simples were converted to compounds in the years from 1898 until into 1906 or so. I think we need to assume that the Minneapolis compound return flue was not a "dog" but that it worked pretty well!

MTM made 4345 RF engines, they made 4190 with firebox boilers, 499 doubles and 3691 singles. There were 192 of the 22 RF TC engines, 53 were coal and 139 were straw burners.

Most of this research was done 20 years ago!

Hope that supplies some info for you to use to document these machines.

Oh but we have lost so much of the Return Flue part of this wonderful heritage! "

Hope you enjoy these Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company facts put together by Dr. Parker. Many of us are blessed on a regular basis with these historical facts, and this seemed like the exact place to include a portion of them!

Later Ray.

[ICLIDA]

This is what it should look like when we get the tool boxes on, the painting and pin striping done and the canopy finished. This is from an old Minneapolis poster I have in my office.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii228/iclida/mpls%2022%20rftc/P1180355-2.jpg

[Brad Kelley]

Keep up the good work you guys!! This is one of my favorite restoration threads!!
:thumb:

[ICLIDA]

Keep up the good work you guys!! This is one of my favorite restoration threads!!
:thumb:

Brad,
I'm glad you have enjoyed this thread. I has been fun documenting this process and I hope it gives people an idea of the amount of time and work that goes into a project like this. I have learned a lot during this process and it has been great spending so much time with others that share a common interest.

Is there any chance that you will be at the show this year to see the end result? If so, be sure to look us up.

I talked to Jeff tonight and he and Gerry are going to fire up again tomorrow afternoon after the other engines get pulled out of the buildings in the morning at the show grounds. I sure wish I could be there, but I have to wait until next weekend to go play again.

I wonder what we should do after the canopy is done? Any suggestions?

Tom

[Colin]

Thanks again Ray and Tom for all the details posts. im planing on being there this year and running a freinds engine again. so ill be able to check her out.
Was wondering what year Jeffs 35 and 45 are? I want to say the current 45 is an 1907? or was there just 7 made? been a little while since i read the sign. how many 35s and DTCP 45s were made? seems funny they didn't call the single TC a 40HP. to designate each model? just a thought.
can't wait to get to the hill:thumb::woohoo1:

[Ray Wangler]

Stopped by Knut's on Saturday and he had steam up on the 22!! My first time seeing it run.........gave me goose bumps!! What a machine. Good job all, I'll see you on the hill in........two...........no ONE week!!!

Ray

[Brad Kelley]

Tom,

I don't have plans to attend Rollag this year, but thanks for the invitation. Hopefully I can come see the show next year.

I have a 18hp Huber waiting for restoration when I finish working the bugs out of my 9hp Case. I'm 90% shure my Huber will need a new boiler, so I'm very excited to see a brand new return flue being built. Although, my boiler will be a little more complicated with Huber's water jacket around the combustion chamber.

I will certainly be seeking advice from everyone involved in this project when I begin designing and shopping for my new boiler.

Thanks!

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?p=214621#post214621

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/dscn1832xw1.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/dscn1832xw1.jpg) http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9840/dscn1835au1.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9840/dscn1835au1.jpg)

[ICLIDA]

Thanks again Ray and Tom for all the details posts. im planing on being there this year and running a freinds engine again. so ill be able to check her out.
Was wondering what year Jeffs 35 and 45 are? I want to say the current 45 is an 1907? or was there just 7 made? been a little while since i read the sign. how many 35s and DTCP 45s were made? seems funny they didn't call the single TC a 40HP. to designate each model? just a thought.
can't wait to get to the hill:thumb::woohoo1:

Colin,
I don't know the exact year of Jeff's 35 and 45, but there were 116 35 singles made between 1905 and 1915. There were only 7 45 STC engines made, all in 1907, 6 of which were traction engines and one skid engine. There were 36 45 DTC engine made between 1908 and 1910. Both the 35 and the 45 DTC engines are double geared engines with the counter shaft that goes through the 5" id tube in the boiler. The 45 STC is a single geared engine and does not have the counter shaft and the tube through the boiler.

It is really interesting to have access to all of these records from Minneapolis so we can try to better understand how things progressed. A big thanks goes to Gerry Parker for supplying all of this information.

See ya on the hill.

Tom

[ICLIDA]

Tom,

I don't have plans to attend Rollag this year, but thanks for the invitation. Hopefully I can come see the show next year.

I have a 18hp Huber waiting for restoration when I finish working the bugs out of my 9hp Case. I'm 90% sure my Huber will need a new boiler, so I'm very excited to see a brand new return flue being built. Although, my boiler will be a little more complicated with Huber's water jacket around the combustion chamber.

I will certainly be seeking advice from everyone involved in this project when I begin designing and shopping for my new boiler.

Thanks!

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?p=214621#post214621

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/dscn1832xw1.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/dscn1832xw1.jpg) http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9840/dscn1835au1.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9840/dscn1835au1.jpg)


Brad,
Too bad you can't make it this year, but we will try to get a lot of pictures of the engine in action.

When Jeff got these 2 engines we didn't even put a UT on the boilers. The plan from day one was to go with a new ASME boiler, but to try to make it as original looking as possible. I think we can very close with the fake lap seam and the row of rivets around the front of the boiler.

When Minneapolis started in 1887 they were only manufacturing threshing machines. I don't think they made there first engine until 1893 or 1894. During these early years, Minneapolis sold Huber engines to go along with their threshing machines. When you look at the Minneapolis return flue engines you can really see the influence Huber had on the first engines, as there are a ton of similarities.

I have some idea's on how I would build a new Huber boiler and what I would do around the combustion chamber. If you want, I will be more then happy to share them with you.

4 more days till I go to the "Hill". I can't wait.

Tom

[Brad Kelley]

I don't recall reading in the thread what will be done with the second Minnie? Is it complete, or was it parted out to build 1 complete engine?

I've seen pictures of the early Huber and Minnie engines, and from what I've seen the only distinguishing features are the canopy and water jacket on the Huber engines! I really wish my Huber had the artistic features of the Minneapolis. Those castings are beautiful and the paint scheme is just stunning!

Tom, that water jacket on my boiler will be the biggest hurdle in building a new one. If the Code allows and I can have a new piece made I'd like to make it functional. I'd love to hear your ideas, but we'll take that discussion somewhere else.

Thanks!