Le Roi

This was a more than humbling display, what I thought should work was shot down by a few people so I did what I was told. It did not work. To make a very very long story as short as possible here goes. The pump has very little lift capabilities, I worked all week trying to get this thing to work to no avail. So I found a tank that we would fill up next to the pump itself and then I plumbed it to the pump. It then worked, this was Wednesday before the show.........no anxiety at all through out the week :banghead3: I then had one day to get the sawmill ready, that all turned out good thank you to the helpers I have at the mill.:congrats:

Now it was to do the first trial run of the pump. Who else to try it than Klinger and his BIG M international:like: When I called him and asked him if he would do this for me, I think he was at the pump before I hung up the phone:rof:
I guess I should show how I got the pipe and the nozzle assembly out in the water. Due to the bottom of the pond being quick sand and muck and not able to hold up a human I had to build a ski or platform of sort to support the end out in the pond.thumbnail (3).jpg

Then I thought I should help float it out into the pond, I thought a innertube would work so here we go.

thumbnail (2).jpg

So we would screw 21 feet of pipe together and then push it out 21 feet at a time. Oh I had to up size the innertube just a little:rof:

thumbnail (4).jpg

I would loosen up the straps a little as we went to keep the weight of it a little bit above the bottom of the pond.
This is the first time it shot water in the air more than 2 feet with Klingers M powering the pump. I knew at this time we could use it this year and not have to tarp it for a year.

thumbnail (5).jpg

Even Colt Edens B John Deere was able to squirt some water!!
thumbnail (6).jpg

thumbnail (7).jpg
Then M had to work hard at this, the B John Deere was really struggling, But Colt was a really good sport and said he would give it a try:thumb:
found out that this design doesn't lift much but would pump water all the way to West Fargo. some would call it a fire pump:scratching: If the pump was at water level it would of worked I think.
It's a fun display to see when operating. I need to get over with my JD B and see what it'll do for pumping water height.

Reading about the pump not producing the expected results.
If this has been changed already then disregard...
Have you considered changing the pump inlet hose size to 5 inch diameter?
It appears in the last photo posted of your post #44, the inlet hose size is 3 inch diameter. If the discharge outlet pipe size is 5 inch, as stated, I think the pump is starving for intake water and causing cavitation inside the pump. Could be a reason why the pump isn't performing properly.

Another thought, maybe install a 2" or 3" simple nozzle at the pipe outlet discharge in the pond. Be fun to see the water shoot 200 feet (or more) in the air. Ha ha ha.
I'll second Karl on the inlet size, it should be at least 5 inch.

Get rid of as many elbows as you can. Where you have to have to make a change in direction, make it gradual. A single big curve of hose from the pump to the horizontal run of pipe and one more going into the upright would be best. Like a race track versus a logging road.
Just to be clear lots of trial runs were made with the same results. what you probably don't realize is we are going out a inch and a half nozzle at the discharge. do to time restraints I was unable to finalize what needed to make it work the best. With that being said it will get finalized next summer to work much better. All suggestions are welcome though.
Having spent a lot of time in the belt on that pump, and learning from Clayton about everything they went through to get it so it could be displayed, the pump is not self priming, and the 5" line is choked down to 1.5' at the outlet so the 5" really means nothing.

Think about a 5" inlet for a minute. They could not get it to lift water from the pond with a 2" line. Can you imagine the weight in water in a 5" suction line?

What he has works well. The inlet hose is sufficient and by the time you suck the "nurse tank" dry, maybe 4 or 5 minutes your HP is ready for a break anyway.

Where and improvement could be made is the time it takes to refill the nurse tank. I think Clayton has a plan for that going forward.

Biggest problem with the exhibit is that once people are more aware of it being there, there may be a longer like to get in the belt!
The additional info helped with the following suggestions.

It is not a self-priming pump, in fact it has little tolerance for air on the inlet side. The valve tree that used to be on top of the pump casing was most likely for priming. A couple valves for venting air and supplying water for priming would make sense. Maybe it should come back.

The 1.5 inch nozzle does make the bends on the 5 inch outlet pipe a non-factor. Once the line is filled, the back pressure would limit the pump to at most 580 gpm at 75psi. Numbers from the Elkhart Brass-GPM flow guide-smooth bore.

Having a feed tank with some elevation on the pump prevents vapor-locking in case of cavitation. It would be tough to pull that much through a 2 inch inlet hose without developing cavitation. Lifting from the pond is pretty much out of the question.

A 3 inch inlet hose is better and might be big enough to lift from the pond. It should take about 3 psi for a vertical lift of about 6.9 ft from the pond to pump.

The 5 inch should be even better. This may seem counter-intuitive.
Compare a 5 gallon pail and a stock tank filled to the same depth. The psi the water exerts on the bottom of each container is the same. If you convert the pail and tank into pipes, the pressure to support that height of water stays the same. The fraction of the water that is slowed by contact with the unmoving walls of the pipe, decreases as diameter increases. So a bigger pipe is better, balanced by cost.
The flexible inlet and outlet hoses could be swapped. The smaller hose feeding into the 5 inch pipe doesn't hurt anything.

A 1-3/16ths nozzle would allow about 362 gpm at 75 psi. The tank and feed pump combo would last longer. This would be the simplest change. The pond should be more of an option with a 3 inch inlet hose.

The transition from the small feed hose to the pump inlet is rather abrupt. The large diameter section of conversion fitting should be at least 3 ft long. It would need to be supported though to take any stress off that flange. Great repair job on sticking it all back together by the way.

Larson's Steam Powered Pump- WMSTR

The spout seems to pulse even though there is a lot of water in that outlet pipe, around a 120 gallons. Given the volume and distance from the pump to the nozzle, I'd think it would be more smooth. That's what makes me think there is cavitation going on. Did you ever put a pressure gauge on the outlet pipe? Too bad you can't hook up to the big blue tank for a comparison run.

Here is a site that can be used to test various pumping arrangements;
NPSH Calculator

Hope there is something worthwhile in this jumble of thoughts.
Thanks for the info cadams, I consider all input into trying to get my projects to perform better. Just so you all realize, there was not enough time to dial this all in before show time. With that being said, there will be a large tank at pump level with the correct sizing for the pump so there should be no cavitation happening, which we knew was going on. I will have the summer to get this dialed in and possibly have the Le Roi down there, which was what powered the pump when it was used by Peabody coal company. I may be able to switch from steam to Le Roi back and forth. With all projects that I take on, there is always a learning curve that is actually fun to figure out and try and perfect. Thanks again cadams for your input.